Cross Town Traffic

[Insidious Rex]

Was just curious to know how traffic (vehicle traffic) is in your part of the world. Its nuts here. I cant wait till they invent hover crafts. Its enough to make me want to quit my job and become a farmer (or maybe a burgler. At least they work at night.)

Also I wanted to ask the Brits out there whats with this London traffic charge thing Ive been hearing about? Are they really charging everyone $9 who even drives anywhere in downtown London? And from what I hear its really popular too. Whats up with that?

[Khamûl]

Well, it's not bad in my hometown, but I spend my weeks on-campus in a college town. On-campus traffic is rough sometimes. I've learned to walk across the street in at least pairs whenever possible, because the drivers will think twice before hitting two people. And that's not far from the truth.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Also I wanted to ask the Brits out there whats with this London traffic charge thing Ive been hearing about? Are they really charging everyone $9 who even drives anywhere in downtown London? And from what I hear its really popular too. Whats up with that?

It seems like the congestion charges in London has been quite successful. The positive effects, less traffic and stuff, have been big and the negative effects that some people were afraid of, have never occurred.
I'm keeping my eye on London since Stockholm might very well be the second city to introduce congestion charges.

[The Gaffer]

The congestion charge has been more successful than even its supporters had hoped. People have got on the bus instead and there's been a massive reduction in traffic in the centre.

It just goes to show that sometimes you have to have the political will to push through the opposition to these kinds of things.

I go to London regularly and it's really noticeable that there's less traffic.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Also I wanted to ask the Brits out there whats with this London traffic charge thing Ive been hearing about? Are they really charging everyone $9 who even drives anywhere in downtown London? And from what I hear its really popular too. Whats up with that?

They've been doing it for a year now and it's really worked. London traffic used to be absolutely terrible, and there has been a reduction. I wasn't in favour of it at the time (though since I don't drive it wouldn't affect me - but that never stopped anyone having an opinion ) but it has been successful. It just applies to central London and it's £5 a day Monday-Friday 7am-6.30pm. Not so bad really.

Edinburgh were talking recently about introducing it, weren't they? So I guess other cities will follow.

[Jonathan]

So do you recommend congestion charges for other cities? Should I advocate the introduction of congestion charges in Stockholm? Not that I find traffic that bad but less cars would always be nice, especially since I live right in the middle of the city. Problem is, I might not be able to afford a car if I have to pay everytime I use it.

[Beruthiel's cat]

This is a very interesting concept. There are many cities in the US which could benefit from something like this (Washington DC being one that I've been familiar with in the past). It would be difficult to get support for a congestion charge here in the States, however. We are very attached to the independence of using our cars to take us wherever we want, whenever we want.

The city I live in now has very little traffic congestion as a rule. I have a 20 minute commute to work (14 miles from my house). It takes me longer to get the 2 miles from home to the expressway entrance than the rest of the commute. Unless it's snowing. I doubt a congestion tax would do too much to help during blizzards!

[Insidious Rex]

Wow thats something that everyone there is so in favor of it. Id have to agree with B's c that we would probably have a collective coranary here in the states. We are extremely touchy about civil liberty issues and such. And when you start saying hey you cant use your car for this or that people start shouting and suing. But on the other hand.... americans dont blink when they are told to pay exhorbitant amounts to park in big cities ($35 in Manhattan for a freaking day!!) and we have way too many parking meters simply designed to rip people off and lead to ticket writing and we have plenty of tolls so who knows...

[brownjenkins]

and i thought this was a jimi hendrix thread

in the end it seems to just be a different, and probably more efficient way, of setting up a toll

pretty good idea

[gdl96]

I also thought this was a Jimi Hendrix thread brownjenkins. I'm disappointed.

[Lady Ravyn]

hmm, i didn't know london was doing that; it sounds like it might be a cool idea, but if i drove in the city a lot, i can see where it might get expensive. true, it would cut down on traffic, but it means delivery fees would go through the roof! they're already sky high because of the crappy gas prices! can you imagine if we had that sort of thing to add to it, too? *shudder*

i live on a highway, so traffic is kinda heavy all the time; it only gets congested in the early morning, and even then, it's not that bad.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by gdl96
I also thought this was a Jimi Hendrix thread brownjenkins. I'm disappointed.

And youll be happy to know i changed the title from "Traffic" to "Cross Town Traffic" in HONOR of that very same Jimi Hendrix song. And anyway does this look like the entertainment thread? Someone go in there and start a Hendrix thread. Apparently one is needed.

[sun-star]

By the way, people living inside the zone get a discount on the charge, while disabled people, taxis, emergency services and things like that can get total exemption.

Just so we're clear

[Insidious Rex]

Do you have to pay on site or do they bill you?

[gdl96]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
And youll be happy to know i changed the title from "Traffic" to "Cross Town Traffic" in HONOR of that very same Jimi Hendrix song. And anyway does this look like the entertainment thread? Someone go in there and start a Hendrix thread. Apparently one is needed.

I'll just move this thread there. Nobody will miss it.

Although getting on topic:
I personally don't think that congestion charge would fly in the US. I wouldn't be against it, but I don't think it would ever see the light of day.

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Do you have to pay on site or do they bill you?

You are supposed to pay in advance, I think by phone, over the net or various ways (though I haven't had to pay it yet). They have cameras which pick up number plates entering the zone. Vehicles which seat over 11 people are exempt (in fact some yuppies have gone and bought themselves mini-buses for commuting to work!).

One of the main negative impacts has been on businesses inside the zone, though they don't yet know what the total economic cost has been.

I can see that in the US, where cities are a bit more spread out and people use cars even more than here, it might be a different issue. It depends on there being a viable alternative for one thing. In London you've got thousands of buses, trains and the tube.

In general, people like their cars because it's a little extension of their private world rather than having to venture out into *gasp* shared space like a bus. I would say that's another reason why it's good to reduce car use.

On a practical level, one of the things people say about the charge is that, if you really need to use the car to get to and from a meeting quickly, say, you know that you will be able to park and will not spend half the day sitting in a traffic jam. Well worth it for 5 quid.

[Jonathan]

I read an article in Times about the buses in London after the introduction of the congestion charge. Now a lot more people take the bus and the passanger numbers are increasing faster than at any time since 1945.

The proportion of people who say they never catch a bus in London has fallen by a third down to 21% since 2000. More people seem to chose the bus because of the greater reliability of the bus journies since the congestion charge began. The buses actually arrive on time in these days and the average as risen by 7%, now that there are 50,000 less cars on the roads in inner London.

Buses have also become easier to use, with a flat £1 ($1.86) fare for any journey in Greater London. They have also introduced digital countdown displays at bus stops so that you know exactly when the bus arrives.

Times said that there had been a "social revolution" on London buses, since people from all social classes use the buses nowadays. Before the congestion charge, people from the upper classes didn't tend to use buses at all. As Margret Tatcher remarked in the 80's: "Anybody seen in a bus over the age of 30 has been a failure in life." Well it seems like the new congestion charge will have to make Tatcher rethink about the buses

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
americans dont blink when they are told to pay exhorbitant amounts to park in big cities ($35 in Manhattan for a freaking day!!)

Where the hell do you pay $35 a day in Manhattan? That's cheap for there.

I don't drive into NY - I either take the train or the ferry. I really don't see much need in driving. NY has for years and years wanted to cut down on personal vehicles. They were looking into the "pay to enter" thing after London implimented it to see how well it worked out. I don't know what the differece will be if they implement it - it already costs like $7 to cross the bridges or go through the tunnels - so I doubt anyone would really care after a while. I have a feeling in London - people will get used to paying and the traffic will return.

BTW - I see absolutely no reason to drive into NY. There are tons of ways to get into the city without needing to drive.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Jonathan
I'm keeping my eye on London since Stockholm might very well be the second city to introduce congestion charges.

Actually, they've been doing it in Singapore (where else?) for a few years now.

This morning I had to wait for four cars to pass before I could pull out of my driveway- time to move

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Actually, they've been doing it in Singapore (where else?) for a few years now.

Yes, I knew about Singapore (where else? ). I was thinking about Europe.