01-02-2005, 10:20 AM | #1 | |
Fëanorophobic
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For poetry readers...
Here's a post by someone in another board:
Quote:
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01-02-2005, 02:05 PM | #2 |
Elf Lord
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I think this is an absolutely erroneous view of poetry. The author of this statement makes everything subjective to the person of self, dixcounting even the ability of the poet to know what is intended or meant. By that logic this interpretation is a clear interpretation of the principle that NO ONE can understand any attempt at communication. Been nice pretending to chat with you all, hasn't it? Surprise yourself that some philososphical aspects of yourselves are abolutist like the me you have imagined?
Total subjectivism is the consequence of this view; when fully ripened, it is known as hell! Poetry is the attempt by the poet to allow us an experience shared. It may be emotional, psychological, spiritual, religious, scientific, physical, et cetera. The poet stands aside, as it were, to let us see through another's eyes. In that vision we may be able to discern aspects of the poet's personality, capabilities, and limitations, but ONLY if the poet succeeds in communicating the experience to us for our comprehension and understanding, so that we may reflect upon it and reflect it back. The subjective is a minor part of the poetic experience. The lies the poets tell us may be nearer to the truth than rationality can grasp...(paraphrased)... CS Lewis.
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01-03-2005, 09:13 AM | #3 | ||
Fëanorophobic
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Quote:
However, here's where I disagree: Quote:
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01-03-2005, 12:21 PM | #4 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Nor does our reaction subjectively make the poem. It is the communicated experience, its successsful entry into our experience, that allows our reaction. Ergo, our subjective experience coloring the poem is minor. Minor could encompass up to 49% of the poetic experience though .
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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01-05-2005, 11:43 AM | #5 | |
The Lovely Hobbit-Lass
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However, I think that to disregard even the poet's intended meaning in a piece is to not fully appreciate the work. How do you know if you really understand the poem if you take it to mean what you want it to mean? If we went through life like this, taking all communication how we want to take it only and not how it is meant, no one would be able to understand each other! We might as well speak gibberish. Poetry, and all art, is a form of expressing oneself, and it is first the expression that the readers/veiwers/hearers should strive to comprehend, not the impression. Only when you hear and understand exactly what someone is trying to say can your response to it be perfect.
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It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year! Last edited by Rosie Gamgee : 01-05-2005 at 11:44 AM. |
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01-05-2005, 01:58 PM | #6 | |
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01-06-2005, 07:01 PM | #7 |
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I think that one thing is subjectivism and one another relativism. Where the analyized statement leads to IMHO is to absolute relativism. And that's where I disagree with its athor. The poet doesn't look for relativism he looks for truth (the opposite concept).
But poetry IMHO, again, leads to truth (or at least try to) through subjetivism, because there are two subjects involved in it: the poet and the reader. If a poem is good that subjetivism helps to enrich our view of the truth. Be it a conceptual truth or a sensorial truth (beauty).
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01-07-2005, 06:36 AM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
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01-07-2005, 11:45 AM | #9 | |
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But that doesn't mean that all interpretations are equally valid (that'd be relativism) or that it doesn't matter what was intended by the poet as far as I find my own interpretation (that'd be relativism too). When I say that subjetivism must be allowed (in fact I think it cannot be avoided) I mean that we must count with it. Other conception of poetry would be to unreal (pretending it to be excesively determined) and it'd make it loose part of its way of being. Poetry is not "objetive" as exact sciences are. But, again, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to understand the poet's vision. Have I clarified my point?
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. Last edited by Fat middle : 01-07-2005 at 11:46 AM. |
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01-07-2005, 04:52 PM | #10 | ||
Fëanorophobic
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If I understand it correctly, then it's similar to what I've stated above: Quote:
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01-08-2005, 05:25 AM | #11 | |
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01-17-2005, 10:27 AM | #12 |
Word Santa Claus
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I think reading a poem is a kind of subconscious dialogue between the person who wrote and the person who reads - with the poet's intention in the poem and the subjectivity of the reader combining to make each reading by each reader different. So the subjective plays a large role, but to dismiss the poet's intent would be folly.
Also, reading a poem twice will reveal different things about it (well, not if you just read the same thing twice in a row with no gap). Which is interesting.
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01-17-2005, 03:10 PM | #13 | |
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