04-27-2006, 09:55 AM | #1 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul: twin cities?
TWIN cities Minas Ithil and Minas Anor were built sometime after SA 3320:
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What was added to each fortress and at what time? Could they still be considered twins? Here are my thoughts on the subject. Description of Minas Ithil: Quote:
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Now let us look at Minas Tirith: Quote:
-7 encircling walls -The road to the gates was not winding, it seems, but further on, beyond the gates it winded its way up, from one level to the next. I suppose, the original fortresses of Minas Ithil and Minas Anor had only the citadel with the Tower and maybe one-two lower levels encircled by walls. I think, as Minas Anor/Tirith grew, additional lower levels were progressively added until at last 7 levels were reached. The winding road leading to the Citadel, became enclosed within the walls, and the Great Gate of the outer wall became level with the surrounding fields. Basically the city now occupied all the hill. It seems that the outer wall, of the same material as the tower of Orthanc, was built long after the days of Anarion. We know from the Tale of Years that the city was rebuilt in TA 420 by King Ostoher, The tower of Anarion was seemingly demolished and built anew in TA 1900 by King Calimehtar, and that tower was rebuilt in TA 2698 by Steward Ecthelion I. Minas Ithil, because of its tumultuous history, never had so large a population as Minas Anor, so probably it always had only 2-3 levels, while the winding road leading to the Citadel was outside the city walls. Actually Minas Morgul remained closer to the original design than Minas Tirith. What do you think on it? Pauline Baynes Artwork by Pauline Baynes, Tolkien's favorite illustrator and map-maker. Here they are, side by side, and the fortresses are not unlike each other. I think, though, that Minas Morgul should be even higher up from the bridge. Minas Tirith is OK, but I think that the green lawns between the walls should be filled by houses. |
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04-28-2006, 12:50 AM | #2 |
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I almost think "twin palaces" might be a better description of how they started.
At its founding, Gondor was ruled by two Kings - the brothers Isildur ("Servant of the Moon" - I think the name translates) and Anarion (the "Anar" is Quenya for "sun" - the "ion" a masculine ending). Minas Ithil (Tower of the Moon) and Minas Anor (Tower of the Sun) seem more like their separate palaces - because Osgiliath, in the middle, was their capital city and they ruled there side-by-side. Isildur, of course, had to flee Minas Ithil in 3429 SA - when Sauron's forces invaded and took the place. Even though the Last Alliance won the subsequent war, I tend to think Minas Ithil was never the same again - and certainly Isildur's family never returned - he even intended to take up his father's throne in Arnor. So - I think it basically stayed unchanged - and used as pretty much a military outpost for as long as Gondor had it (what was that year - 2002 TA??). After that time, I suppose the Ringwraiths made their various "improvements". Minas Anor, I believe, had a slow transition from royal palace to capitol city. It remained primarily the palace for Anarion's heirs for some time I'm sure - while they still ruled from Osgiliath. When Ostoher rebuilt the place in 420, we're told that the Kings began to dwell there in summer. So from that point, they split their time - presumably it was more comfortable there in summer, at higher ground, and away from the city. But even then, it wasn't until 1640 - 4 years after the Great Plague devastated the population of Osgiliath at that time, that King Tarondor (whose uncle, King Telemnar - died in the Plague with all his children) removed the King's House more permanently to Minas Anor. I think it was at this time that Minas Anor began to rapidly shift from being a palatial estate, to being a capitol city - as remnants of Osgiliath's population settled there, instead of returning to the city where so many had died of the plague. Then - after 2002, when the Nazgul took Minas Ithil - it was known afterwards as Minas Morgul ("Tower of Sorcery") - and the city of Minas Anor was renamed Minas Tirith ("Tower of Guard").
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04-28-2006, 02:27 AM | #3 |
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04-28-2006, 07:16 AM | #4 | |
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04-28-2006, 07:18 AM | #5 | |
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04-28-2006, 09:33 AM | #6 | |
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Where do you see "Rising" or "Setting"? I know you have not misquoted though, there is this part in the Silm, I know- but still, where are those words? |
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04-28-2006, 09:38 AM | #7 | |
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That means, that M.Morgul has less levels than M. Tirith. There was no way that Isildur's fortress had only 2-3 levels from the start, while Anarion's had full 7. They had to be alike originally. So - lower levels of Minas tirith should be more recent than the Citadel. |
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04-28-2006, 09:24 PM | #8 | |
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04-28-2006, 09:27 PM | #9 | |
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Besides - I don't know if it had the full seven levels - what if it was just a hill - maybe the "switchback" route through the shoulder of the mountain was there, maybe not. But - although I expect the rest of the walls, and all the infill streets and buildings came later - I could see the entire hill having been walled off from the start - by what later became the outermost ring, at the bottom.
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04-28-2006, 09:28 PM | #10 | |
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04-29-2006, 10:00 AM | #11 |
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I don’t think the two cities ever looked exactly alike. The two trees looked different from each other and so do the sun and moon. “Twin” probably refers more to their: time of construction, location in regards to Osgiliath, strength and size, position on mountainsides, and inhabitants (Isildur and Anarion). They probably looked similar but not the same.
The winding road in Minas Anor goes back and forth through a “towering bastion of stone” which split the city in two. If the outer levels and walls were added later, then in earlier times the road to the gate zig-zagged through a (mostly) natural stone wall for no real reason. The winding road to Minas Ithil on the other hand seems to be over open ground. Also, I don’t think we should place too much importance on curving roads because roads in mountainous regions tend to be winding. It isn’t easy to go straight up a mountain. Just because Minas Anor had more levels than Minas Ithil doesn’t have to mean it was bigger or stronger, it was simply more divided, probably due to differences in terrain. The growing population of Minas Anor in the middle of the Third Age could explain the numerous levels but I think it is more likely that the city simply became denser rather than spreading out. I also wonder if the people of Gondor were capable of building the great wall of Minas Tirith in the latter half of the Third Age. It was of the same quality as Orthanc yet the Dunedains’ “arts” would have declined quite a bit by this time. |
04-29-2006, 07:24 PM | #12 | |||
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04-29-2006, 08:52 PM | #13 | |||
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I like your idea Gordis that as Minas Anor grew it took in a road the same as one still outside it’s identical twin city, but I can’t agree with it. The great stone bastion was a defining feature of Minas Anor. How could Minas Ithil be identical when it (apparently) lacked this outcrop? |
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04-30-2006, 12:26 PM | #14 | ||
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They could have had two parts of M.Tirith, starting from the Third Circle, (Level 3A-Level 3B )but they have chosen to make numerous tunnels. Architectural pride, I guess. I agree that because of the outcrop the cities were not identical. |
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04-30-2006, 01:27 PM | #15 | ||
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Gordis, I hate to disagree with you again. I don’t like to seem argumentative. But I have to on this point. I hope you don’t hold it against me.
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04-30-2006, 02:34 PM | #16 | ||||
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