04-11-2006, 11:04 AM | #1 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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muslims PART 2
ok, go to it.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-11-2006, 12:16 PM | #2 | |
Elf Lord
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About the reason for the hatred: I think it obviously has something to do with the "old" anti-semitism, from centuries ago. But now it was based more on "science" than "oh, no! the jews murdered Jesus! Let's kill them". (I think that officially, though, the Pope instructed not to murder or kill jews - but not to treat them equally) I don't really think Christinaity can be blamed. On the other hand, the Pope never officially condemned Hitler's actions; I'm sure some lives could be saved in Catholic Poland had he said to save Jews. About Islam: I read in an encyclopedia how it spread so fast, and they say that there wasn't a strong military force in the remnants of the Roman Empire, the old religions in the conquered lands were weak, and that the treatment the conquered people got was rather tolerant. Of course Jews or Chrisitans weren't treated equally to muslims, but neither did Jews in Europe. But the lives of Jews under Muslim reign were much better than the lives they had in Christian Europe at the time. (Especially during the crusades - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...d_the_Crusades) Last edited by Radagast The Brown : 04-11-2006 at 12:17 PM. |
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04-11-2006, 01:10 PM | #3 |
Elf Lord
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Muslim men have enormous difficulty in conforming to the customs of the country to which they move.
We have noticed this in Sweden where the men of the family are extremely obsessive of the daughters to the point of murdering them if they fall in love with a Swedish boy. Or if the daughters do not conform with the established customs of marrying the man which the family has decided they should marry and instead want go it alone and live like a Swede the family murder them for that reason. Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 04-11-2006 at 01:12 PM. |
04-11-2006, 01:26 PM | #4 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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another excellent example of the religion of tolerance and peace. sincere thanks for that GW.
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04-11-2006, 01:45 PM | #5 |
Quasi Evil
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That happens on such a scale in Sweden as to be useful for anti-muslim propaganda?
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04-11-2006, 02:49 PM | #6 | |
Elf Lord
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I'll respond to you soon, Radagast. Just going to do some research, first.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-11-2006, 04:07 PM | #7 | |
Elf Lord
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04-11-2006, 06:33 PM | #8 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Marriage customs/practices would be interesting to discuss. In Judaism, from what I understand, women had the right of refusal, which was VERY counter-culture in ancient times. I don't think Muslim women have that right under their scriptures, do they?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-11-2006 at 06:36 PM. |
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04-11-2006, 09:13 PM | #9 | |
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However, I agree that the Ku Klux Klan is a very valid example of evil practiced by Christians.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-11-2006 at 09:16 PM. |
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04-11-2006, 09:29 PM | #10 | |
Quasi Evil
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And my question stands as legitimate. How often are swedish muslims killing their daughters? Willy nilly as this would suggest? Or is it an unusual case? Im curious.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-11-2006, 09:30 PM | #11 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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04-11-2006, 09:53 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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Yes, I'm not saying the Klan is all bad either. It certainly has been responsible for horrible acts of terrorism, though.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-11-2006, 10:33 PM | #13 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Well, terrorism of basically one race as opposed to the modern day useage of the term terrorist who threatens all Americans. A fine point but one distinction that should be made.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-11-2006, 10:55 PM | #14 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I think another valid question to throw in the pot would be this: what makes a person a Muslim?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-12-2006, 12:33 AM | #15 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-12-2006, 12:38 AM | #16 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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04-12-2006, 12:41 AM | #17 | ||
Elf Lord
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I don't know if it goes beyond that at all. According to this website, these are the "foundation of Muslim life." Here's a relevant quote: Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-12-2006, 02:39 AM | #18 | |
Elf Lord
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The whole concept of the family deciding things in this manner is very much an ongoing occurence. It's the ignoring of it or nonchalant dismissal of this occurence that I object against. And, Lief, my point is that although there are moderate muslims in this day and age, the basic way of thinking has not disappeared even in them. Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 04-12-2006 at 02:44 AM. |
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04-12-2006, 02:49 AM | #19 | ||
of the House of Fëanor
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And how, exactly, is terrorism any less terrifying or destructive if and when it is "against a race" as opposed to "against Americans" - are african american people not American? They are. So, are you saying that only as long as terrorism is religiously based, and only comes from a muslim country or organisation, can it be technically classified as terrorism? Sorry guys, you have got it ALL wrong, both of you. A terrorist act can and is often american against american, too, irregardless or because of religion, or irregardless or because of race, or sexual orientation, or political affiliation, the list goes on. Terrorism is terrorism, it does not make one damn bit of difference if it comes from a place of spiritual hatred or racial hatred, or just plain old irrational, yet organised hatred. But the Ku Klux Klan comments - *shakes head, incredulous* So tell me, what are these great benefits and good deeds the Ku Klux Klan have done for the good citizens of the United States of America? Aside from terrorizing an entire racial group of american citizens, on their own home soil, for over one hundred years, right up to the present moment? Do you even have any idea what it is the Klan actually is, or what they stand for, or how they begun? Or how many families they destroyed, how many people they tortured to death, burned alive & lynched and raped, etcetra and so on? It surprises me that some people may just not be aware. I gave you guys a couple links right here so you can read up on it; I'd try to find more but this little laptop I'm on is kind of time-consuming to navigate back & forth between pages. It already took me like half an hour just to compose this post! So anyway - http://www.kkk.com/ Once America's preeminent terrorist organization, the Ku Klux Klan today is a fragmented and amorphous collection of independent groups and individuals, constantly squabbling over diminishing memberships and limited resources. Passed over by most young white supremacists, who consider Klansmen to be ineffectual and faintly ridiculous old-timers, the group presents far less of a threat to public order than at any time in the past century. Despite its dwindling influence, however, the Klan continues to be a specter that haunts the American psyche and the sight of a flaming cross can still inspire both horror and terror. ~ from the ADL Law Enforcement Agency Resource Network http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/KKK....cked=4&item=18
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 04-12-2006 at 02:56 AM. |
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04-12-2006, 03:19 AM | #20 | ||
Elf Lord
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You're misinterpreting me and Spock I think, Lotesse.
I did not say they're "not all that bad." The acts of terrorism are inexcusable. I said that I'm not arguing they're "all bad," which means I'm leaving room for the possibility they've done some good as well (My research of the Klan, unfortunately, hasn't expanded beyond their violence and rise to power and influence, so I haven't studied beneficial aspects of the Klan). I personally suspect Spock is right. Often people will do both good and bad. Christopher Columbus would be one example. He discovered America, which pleases me greatly , but he horribly abused natives, which was simply evil. Often life is a mix. Everyone does some bad in their lives, some more than others, but I doubt that anyone has existed who has done no good. And I suspect Spock is right about the Klan having done some good too- just as Hamas has. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-12-2006 at 03:28 AM. |
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