07-19-2007, 06:55 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
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Holy War in Pakistan
Since the Red Mosque in Pakistan was destroyed a week ago in a battle between Islamist militants and Pakistani soldiers, violence has exploded in Pakistan, particularly in the northwest. Over a hundred soldiers have been killed in a series of attacks that have been primarily suicide bombings. It's the latest expansion of the War on Terror, I guess one could say. But it is particularly worrisome that Pakistan is experiencing this growing internal unrest, seeing as it's a nuclear armed country directly adjacent to Afghanistan and Pakistan's traditional enemy India.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
07-19-2007, 10:59 PM | #2 | |
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-20-2007, 12:38 AM | #3 |
Elf Lord
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I disagree with some of your facts, but I don't really feel like getting into another history debate right now, so I hope you don't mind if I just don't respond on that. The most important point is that none of what you said contradicts what I said. Extremism does exist in Pakistan and, as you point out quite correctly, it has a history there. That extremism's presence is tied to violence in Pakistan's past, I absolutely agree. Confronting it is also part of the War on Terror, as I was saying. Our claims aren't mutually exclusive.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
07-20-2007, 01:02 AM | #4 |
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....isn't holy war an oxymoron?
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07-20-2007, 10:25 AM | #5 |
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I'd say that the inflamation of extremism is a direct result of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Violence breeds violence.
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07-20-2007, 11:36 AM | #6 | |
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That is way too cliche...
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07-20-2007, 12:09 PM | #7 | |
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(It's also not really appropos; that one goes "turn the other cheek", not "slap them back")
Quote:
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07-20-2007, 01:46 PM | #8 |
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And what gets me is how increasingly hypocritical we look backing Musharraf’s less and less democratic tactics in trying to keep a grip on power in Pakistan because he is “on our side” (despite a truce with the northwest based Al Quaeda hiding extremists that we want to get at…) while railing on about how the most essential thing is to try to bring democracy to the middle east. You could see regime change for the worse in Pakistan because of his tactics (the same could be said for Saudi Arabia for that matter although there is no true Musharraf figure there). And all we need is for Pakistan to become a second Taliban lead Afghanistan.
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07-20-2007, 02:05 PM | #9 | |
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
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07-20-2007, 02:26 PM | #10 | |
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-20-2007, 04:24 PM | #11 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-20-2007, 05:51 PM | #12 | |
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I shudder to think of what would have happened to Europe if the US hadn't waged war on the Axis powers. And I'm not sure that we 'should' have waited for the political certainty that the attack on Pearl Harbour gave us. Certainly thousands died waiting. But I'm less sure about other wars we've waged. There's a certain point where I think sovereign nations are entitled to be as stupid and wrong in settling their problems as the average loud uncle. We cannot appoint ourselves the only parent in a world of children. That's just not how it is.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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07-20-2007, 05:51 PM | #13 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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A lot of things breed violence.
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07-20-2007, 07:43 PM | #14 |
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[QUOTE=Gwaimir Windgem](It's also not really appropos; that one goes "turn the other cheek", not "slap them back")
Yeah, couldn't really remember the English version. Thanx
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07-20-2007, 09:29 PM | #15 | |
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07-20-2007, 10:43 PM | #16 |
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No. Being religious and being holy are not the same thing. Holiness being compatible with war is iffy under any circumstances, but I think that these days, with the sheer destructive capacity we command, they are essentially mutually exclusive.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
07-21-2007, 01:05 AM | #17 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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07-22-2007, 05:29 AM | #18 | |
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Or do you mean Pakistan has been the aggressee?
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07-22-2007, 05:34 AM | #19 | |
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Afghanistan? I'd say that the violence there (other than the usual tribal violence they've been indulging in for thousands of years) is a direct result of the Russian invasion, which led to the growth of the mujahideen, which led to the warlords, which led to the Taliban, who were sheltering people who actually attacked America, and who refused to give them up.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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07-22-2007, 11:27 PM | #20 |
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One of the problems with democracy in the Middle East is the increasing Islamist success. Even in Turkey, it seems Islamists have made enormous gains now.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe...ons/index.html I wonder how much of a difference this election will make in the country's policies.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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