10-16-2001, 04:51 AM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
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Nature of the Music
The debates on creation in other debates (eg The Two Trees) got me thinking.
What was the nature of the Music? How much did it determine the actions of any being of Ea or Arda? Was creation possible for anyone, or did they just act (unknowingly) from plans layed down in the Music? If so, was there any free will at all? I am sure the good Prof. commented on this somewhere in HoME or The Letters. Or perhaps people have opinions anyhow. Shoot! |
10-16-2001, 05:47 PM | #2 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Re: Nature of the Music
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10-17-2001, 04:54 AM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
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Thanks, Sister Golden Hair! That clearly explains the characteristics of the various themes.
But still, just how much room was there for the individual actors, be they Yavanna or Turin, to choose what to create, how to act, what to say, etc? If all beings of Eru´s creation were just repeating or acting out the themes layed down in the Music, it seems to me as a rather dull and dead world. But then of course there could be a difference in the options open to the different classes of beings. Perhaps the angelic Valar could in some senses be more restricted than even Men, Orcs or animals of ME? Perhaps the Children of Iluvatar had more of free will? I don´t know. More opinions, please! Last edited by Kirinki54 : 10-17-2001 at 04:55 AM. |
10-17-2001, 04:33 PM | #4 |
The Insufferable
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"Perhaps the Children of Iluvatar had more of free will?"
Exactly. The Ainur were constrained in thier actions by the music. Being angelic, they were set upon their course by the part they played in the music. Elves are also influenced a great deal. They are generally all good, and with a few exception followed the will of illuvatar. Men, however, have the ability to choose thier path in life. ( but As a result of this, they have only a short time in arda.) |
10-18-2001, 04:02 PM | #5 | |||
Elven Warrior
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I think at least there are many exceptions where the actions and fate of Men were very determined by the powers. And as for the Gift, are any reason ever given in any text? It seems like a mystery only known to Eru, just as what happens after death. If not, we are free to speculate... |
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10-18-2001, 04:21 PM | #6 | ||||
The Insufferable
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"But to men he gave a new gift, that they should be able to live beyond the music of the ainur that is fate to all other things. But it is one with this that they are only a short time in this world, and then pass on, and the valar know not where." SIC? Quote:
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10-19-2001, 04:02 AM | #7 | ||||
Elven Warrior
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But there are many many examples of Elves behaving foolish, selfish, cruel, devious, etc. From Celegorm trying to ride down Beren to the Third age Elven-lords concealing the true facts about Rings. Quote:
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Hurin the greatest warrior? Well, perhaps. I have no favourite and Men were in those days often equal to Elves. My favourite fight is Fingolfin attacking Morgoth, although he lost. |
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