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05-02-2003, 03:02 AM | #1 | ||||
Viggoholic
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The Silmarillion: Ch 7: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
Chapter 7 - Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
Overview of Chapter 7 This chapter of the Silmarillion encompasses the making of the Silmarils by Fëanor, the lust of Melkor for them, the lies spread among the elves by Melkor, the banishment of Fëanor from Tirion for threatening his half-brother Fingolfin, and Melkor's departure from Valinor after Fëanor cast him away after perceiving his lust for the Silmarils. General Comments I feel that Fëanor was too hasty in confronting his half-brother, although no doubt the lies of Melkor fired the flame in his belly. I was surprised Fëanor actually listened to Melkor, since Melkor had already committed evil deeds and had spent three ages in bondage. I think the Valar were right in banishing Fëanor from Tirion, for the lies of Melkor and his wroth for his half-brother would only grow in Fëanor’s heart. Although it is all too easy in retrospect, I think that Fëanor’s actions in this chapter all but make it a certainty that Melkor would wreak the destruction of the Two Trees, and steal the Silmarils. Links I did not have the opportunity to consult any of The History of Middle-earth. I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that some relevant material can be found in The Book of Lost Tales Part I and The War of the Jewels. I did happen to find some pretty pictures: Map of Aman: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Den/3465/map_aman.jpg Map of Valinor: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Den/3465/map_valinor.jpg Morgoth: http://www.nightrunner.com/cgi-bin/s...y?id=1923&pn=0 (I just checked these links, and the two map links are not working at the moment. Hopefully they will be working soon.) Discussion Points In this post I will raise some points that I thought were interesting. I would invite others to raise points which they think are relevant. It was said that: Quote:
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The next paragraph says: Quote:
More: Quote:
*continued next post*
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05-02-2003, 03:04 AM | #2 | |||
Viggoholic
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*continued*
The next paragraph: Quote:
I've always wondered about the size of the Silmarils. It says that Fëanor 'would wear them, blazing on his brow'. Surely this means they cannot be much bigger than, say, an apricot. Does it say somewhere in Tolkien’s writings the size of the Silmarils? Quote:
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All right, that's all have to say in my introduction. Discuss away!
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05-02-2003, 10:35 AM | #3 | ||||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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heehee I'm first yipie!
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We are not things. Last edited by Earniel : 05-02-2003 at 10:36 AM. |
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05-02-2003, 11:29 AM | #4 |
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good work, Cass!
i think 'tis said that the Silmarillion were about the size of an egg. but i don't what kind of egg
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05-02-2003, 11:53 AM | #5 |
im quite stupid
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I dont think that anyone would of seen the destruction of the two trees comming. Morgoth was jelious of the light and beauty of the similis and wished to posses them im sure he would of loved to have the two trees as his own but it just isnt feasiable to carry off 2 big trees into middle earth is it?
He loved the light and wished it to be his own and deny it to all save whom he chose with the stones he would do this but he had to destroy the trees and ruin the happiness of the valar and elves.
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05-02-2003, 02:43 PM | #6 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I have always pictured the Silmarils as smaller than a hen's egg, perhaps more the size of a cherry-tomato or a large grape, i.e., about 25mm. Surely, even Feanor wouldn't have bound three jewels the size of eggs to his brow. Also, Beren clasped it in his hand, and it stayed there in Carcharost's belly.
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05-02-2003, 04:45 PM | #7 | |
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Yes, even with all his faults, I never imagined Fëanáro with bad taste... Good point about Beren's hand in the belly of the wolf - his hand prob. had to be able to close around it.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 05-02-2003 at 04:46 PM. |
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05-02-2003, 05:06 PM | #8 |
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i've been looking for that quote about eggs, and now i think i was wrong. Nimphelos, the great pearl that Cirdann gave to Thingol, was of the size of a dove's egg. I think memory betrayed me again
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
05-02-2003, 05:31 PM | #9 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Now that's bugging me, because I have a (probably!) faulty memory of the Sils being compared in size to a plover's egg... *grabs books on the way out the door - will peruse while waiting for kids at school*
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-02-2003, 06:00 PM | #10 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Unfortunately the IMG-code is off here, but here's a link to how Tolkien drew the Silmarilli:
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05-02-2003, 07:17 PM | #11 | |
The Insufferable
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I would say that yes, the size of an egg sounds right to me.
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05-02-2003, 07:32 PM | #12 |
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Melkor doesn't have any taste in jewelry design
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-02-2003, 07:35 PM | #13 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 05-02-2003 at 07:38 PM. |
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05-02-2003, 07:40 PM | #14 | ||
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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(emphasis (sp?) added) Edited: You beat me to it, RÃ*an
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 05-02-2003 at 07:42 PM. |
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05-02-2003, 07:44 PM | #15 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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05-02-2003, 07:50 PM | #16 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-03-2003, 03:46 AM | #17 | |
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Re: The Silmarillion: Ch 7: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 05-03-2003 at 01:49 PM. |
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05-03-2003, 10:08 AM | #18 | ||
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Re: Re: The Silmarillion: Ch 7: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 05-03-2003 at 10:11 AM. |
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05-03-2003, 11:21 AM | #19 | |||||
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Re: Re: The Silmarillion: Ch 7: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
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Perhaps we can aply to the Silmarils the scheme of the Rings story. Tolkien stated that there was something wrong from the moment of their conception. Elves didn't want the rings to do evil things, but they wanted to keep the blessednes of Aman living in their beloved ME. So they create the rings: material things with what they could alter the material world, stopping the pass of time over it. They were breaking the rules of the world, and that was the begining of all the evil that would came later. Something tells me that in the conception of the Silmarils things were similar. Annals of Aman says that he began to work in the Silmarils in 1449, a year before they were full-wrought. The author of the Annals believes that Melkor had no part in Feanor's instruction, Quote:
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After all, both rings and Silmarils reflect the idea of the original sin in christianism, whose core is that all evil came after men hear the voice of Satan. Melkor's voice was very dangerous...
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Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot. |
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05-03-2003, 11:32 AM | #20 |
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Well the real details can be mixed up in the various mythologies. I haven't read HoME but one would think that some of the langauge is from older variants then others. Also, the idea of a golden age where great things were done never to be repeated are a common mythological theme.
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