I hope this wasn't done before!

Darkhalcyon · 10-20-2001, 10:49 AM

I've always loved elves, and i want to be one. BUt they talk about the "sorrow" of the elves,and they sometimes act like it's not such a great thing. Would anyone else share the fate of the evles, and live forever, in a place that never changes?

Personally, i would, but apparently some elves didn't mind the "gift of men"

Isn't it kind of ironic that the men wanted immortality like the elves, but the elves considered death to be a gift from Eru?

Wayfarer · 10-21-2001, 05:11 PM

No, It's not ironic. Eru himself said that elves (yea, even the valar) would envy men in time.

And It's not terribly unexpected that men would envy the immortal folk.

The grass is always greener on the other side, right?

afro-elf · 10-22-2001, 12:18 AM

Well that might depend on your belief. If you are a religous type then the idea of the "GIFT of Man" may be attractive.

If you are not of that mode then "guaranteed" immortality may seem a wiser choice.

Quote:

in a place that never changes

Where does it state that things never change in the West?

One idea of theology is that Heaven is unchanging also.

So I guess it would come down to a matter of faith.

I'd prefer eternity with Elves than mortals (or former mortals)

I do find the Professor's theological beliefs that are worked into his works "interesting".

But then he also said that Middle Earth was OUR world 7,000 thousand years ago. ( I believe that is what he said. someelse will have to verify that)
and that just doesn't hold water.

So I gloss over things like that and read it as a good fantasy and nothing more.

ringbearer · 10-22-2001, 12:38 AM

The Elves are bored with immortality!

afro-elf · 10-22-2001, 03:35 AM

Ringbearer

I've only read the Hobbit and LOTR.

Where is it explicitly stated that Elves are bored with immortality?

Thanks

Darkhalcyon · 10-22-2001, 10:17 AM

i think it's more implicit. I know that while i'd love to be an elf, i would get bored after a while. That's why middle earth might have been an attractive place for them. well, i don't know. ^^;

Do ya think Eru made the right choice regarding the Elves and Men?

ringbearer · 10-22-2001, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
Ringbearer

I've only read the Hobbit and LOTR.

Where is it explicitly stated that Elves are bored with immortality?

Thanks

It is just an opinion of mine.

Darkhalcyon · 10-23-2001, 05:41 PM

wouldn't we all get bored eventually? after a thousand or so years i'd be like "ooh, the sunrise. AGAIN" blah blah...The elves in lodoss war had it better, i think. but that's got nothing to do with tolkien i s'pose

afro-elf · 10-23-2001, 05:55 PM

perhaps there is a psychological difference between the races.

maybe the immortal psyche is geared in such a way that it doesn't get "bored"

they may get world weary in middle earth but perhaps in the west the intrinsic "Magic" would be ever refreshing

it also seems world weariness over came those elves who had suffered much and as such was not boredom but sorrow that sent them west

you guys thoughts...

Bregalad · 10-23-2001, 09:04 PM

I'm 36 years old and I already get bored! I can't imagine finding something to do for all eternity! talk about watching some boring re-runs! And on a more serious note, the Elves power is fading, soon they travel across the sea never to return. They truly can't go home again, and that's a scary place to be.

Wayfarer · 10-23-2001, 09:18 PM

Look at it this way:

The valar are content to HAVE thier cake. They're perfectly happy cloistered away in valinor.

Men get to EAT the cake. I would say that they, having unlimited choices in this world, reap the greater rewards in thier brief sojurn through.

Elves (tolkien said) wanted both. The wanted to be respected and treated like the valar (which ouldn't have happened in valinor), but they still wanted unchanging beauty (which they could only have gotten in valinor)

olorin7 · 12-05-2001, 06:35 PM

it is said that the elves would live eternally in middle earth untile the world ended. humans like elves were able to die, but also lived forever. they left middle earth when they died though. so its not necessarily a choice of living forever, but a choice of where you will live.

bombcar · 12-17-2001, 05:02 AM

Just do what Arwen & Luthien did - be and elf for awhile, and then marry a mortal!

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-17-2001, 10:08 AM

I was really given the impression in the Athrabeth, that Man was really the immortal ones in the end. They go beyond after death. The Elves die when the world dies. So, their inmortality is not eternal.

Wayfarer · 12-17-2001, 04:25 PM

But not even the Valar know what Tol...um, Eru had in store for the elves after tyhe world's end.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-17-2001, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayfarer
But not even the Valar know what Tol...um, Eru had in store for the elves after tyhe world's end.

True. This was the understanding that Finrod had though and shared with Andreth

olorin7 · 12-20-2001, 12:29 AM

i thought that it said that the elves remain with middle earth till its end and that they would then journey to the same place as men, with eru

Kirinki54 · 12-20-2001, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
True. This was the understanding that Finrod had though and shared with Andreth

What is the name of that story again, and in what HoME volume is it found?
I want to read it!

Ñólendil · 12-20-2001, 09:34 PM

Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth (Sindarin: 'the Debate of Finrod and Andreth') in Vol. X, Morgoth's Ring.

Legolas · 12-21-2001, 08:35 AM

I want to be an elf!
I love nature, I love poetry and music, what is more?
But I am not an elf!

10-20-2001, 10:49 AM	#1
Darkhalcyon Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a boring little town not too far from manhattan Posts: 140	I hope this wasn't done before! I've always loved elves, and i want to be one. BUt they talk about the "sorrow" of the elves,and they sometimes act like it's not such a great thing. Would anyone else share the fate of the evles, and live forever, in a place that never changes? Personally, i would, but apparently some elves didn't mind the "gift of men" Isn't it kind of ironic that the men wanted immortality like the elves, but the elves considered death to be a gift from Eru? __________________ Absolute power corrupts. Knowledge is power. Study hard, be evil.

10-22-2001, 12:38 AM	#4
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	The Elves are bored with immortality! __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

10-22-2001, 03:35 AM	#5
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Ringbearer I've only read the Hobbit and LOTR. Where is it explicitly stated that Elves are bored with immortality? Thanks __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-22-2001, 10:17 AM	#6
Darkhalcyon Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a boring little town not too far from manhattan Posts: 140	i think it's more implicit. I know that while i'd love to be an elf, i would get bored after a while. That's why middle earth might have been an attractive place for them. well, i don't know. ^^; Do ya think Eru made the right choice regarding the Elves and Men? __________________ Absolute power corrupts. Knowledge is power. Study hard, be evil.

10-23-2001, 05:41 PM	#8
Darkhalcyon Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a boring little town not too far from manhattan Posts: 140	wouldn't we all get bored eventually? after a thousand or so years i'd be like "ooh, the sunrise. AGAIN" blah blah...The elves in lodoss war had it better, i think. but that's got nothing to do with tolkien i s'pose __________________ Absolute power corrupts. Knowledge is power. Study hard, be evil.

10-21-2001, 05:11 PM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	No, It's not ironic. Eru himself said that elves (yea, even the valar) would envy men in time. And It's not terribly unexpected that men would envy the immortal folk. The grass is always greener on the other side, right?

10-23-2001, 05:55 PM	#9
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	perhaps there is a psychological difference between the races. maybe the immortal psyche is geared in such a way that it doesn't get "bored" they may get world weary in middle earth but perhaps in the west the intrinsic "Magic" would be ever refreshing it also seems world weariness over came those elves who had suffered much and as such was not boredom but sorrow that sent them west you guys thoughts... __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 10-23-2001 at 05:56 PM.

10-23-2001, 09:04 PM	#10
Bregalad Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KY Posts: 217	I'm 36 years old and I already get bored! I can't imagine finding something to do for all eternity! talk about watching some boring re-runs! And on a more serious note, the Elves power is fading, soon they travel across the sea never to return. They truly can't go home again, and that's a scary place to be. __________________ "They have called me that ever since I said yes to an elder Ent before he had finished his question" -Quickbeam This post property of Entmoot.

10-23-2001, 09:18 PM	#11
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Look at it this way: The valar are content to HAVE thier cake. They're perfectly happy cloistered away in valinor. Men get to EAT the cake. I would say that they, having unlimited choices in this world, reap the greater rewards in thier brief sojurn through. Elves (tolkien said) wanted both. The wanted to be respected and treated like the valar (which ouldn't have happened in valinor), but they still wanted unchanging beauty (which they could only have gotten in valinor)

12-05-2001, 06:35 PM	#12
olorin7 Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: cleveland oh Posts: 25	it is said that the elves would live eternally in middle earth untile the world ended. humans like elves were able to die, but also lived forever. they left middle earth when they died though. so its not necessarily a choice of living forever, but a choice of where you will live.

12-17-2001, 05:02 AM	#13
bombcar Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Santa Paula, CA Posts: 22	Just do what Arwen & Luthien did - be and elf for awhile, and then marry a mortal!

12-17-2001, 10:08 AM	#14
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	I was really given the impression in the Athrabeth, that Man was really the immortal ones in the end. They go beyond after death. The Elves die when the world dies. So, their inmortality is not eternal.

12-17-2001, 04:25 PM	#15
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	But not even the Valar know what Tol...um, Eru had in store for the elves after tyhe world's end. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-20-2001, 12:29 AM	#17
olorin7 Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: cleveland oh Posts: 25	i thought that it said that the elves remain with middle earth till its end and that they would then journey to the same place as men, with eru

12-20-2001, 09:34 PM	#19
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth (Sindarin: 'the Debate of Finrod and Andreth') in Vol. X, Morgoth's Ring. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-21-2001, 08:35 AM	#20
Legolas Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Vilnius, Lithuania Posts: 171	I want to be an elf! I love nature, I love poetry and music, what is more? But I am not an elf! __________________ Legolas - a stupid stubborn elf

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Star Wars Musical	Grey_Wolf	The Star Wars Saga	63	11-27-2007 04:24 PM
Star Wars: A Lost Hope	The Witch-King of Angmar	The Star Wars Saga	9	04-20-2006 12:53 PM
"Yet hope remains while all the Company is true"	Artanis	Lord of the Rings Books	96	01-09-2005 08:48 AM
"I hope so."	Rosie Gamgee	Lord of the Rings Books	13	09-18-2004 03:52 AM