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08-23-2004, 01:18 PM | #1 | |
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"Yet hope remains while all the Company is true"
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And, did they all in their hearts reject the temptation?
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08-23-2004, 01:27 PM | #2 | ||
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I think all but Boromir rejected the temptation, and it was his downfall. I think Boromir's greatest desire was to have Sauron defeated and Gondor safe, with him ruling as a good king. He wanted what was best for his people, but he also wanted to succeed his father as King, not just as a Steward. He was still not entirely convinced that the Ring could not be used against Sauron, and the Ring preyed on this weakness. As Gandalf pointed out (in reference to himself, but it also applies to Boromir) he would have tried to use the Ring for good, but it would only do evil.
Galadriel tested them in the relative safety of Lothlorien so they could overcome any doubts there instead of at a key moment. Boromir did not overcome his doubts, and I think Galadriel forsaw what would happen to him. This is why Galadriel disturbed Boromir so much. He sensed what he saw, though he did not know what it was. Maybe if he had he might have been able to resist the Ring.
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08-23-2004, 01:50 PM | #3 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I certainly agree about Boromir. His comment that the Men of Gondor are true to their word and Galadriel's telling Gandalf that he was in danger make no other interpretation possible, IMHO. Frodo she held longest in her gaze. What was she offering him? I have always thought that she offered him an honorable way to end his part in the Quest, leave the Ring with some other Bearer, and return home, or perhaps Rivendell. His readiness, feigned or true to offer her the Ring argues for this. Aragorn? Perhaps that he might forsake the Quest, marry Arwen, and stay there in Lorien. Legolas? I don't know. Something he greatly desired. Perhaps a Princedom adjacent to Mirkwood ? Merry and Pippin? Wealth and power in the Shire, perhaps? All the food and ale they could eat? Certainly a return to the Shire. Gimli? Weath and power, perhaps a new Dwarf-realm? Not certain. Hard are the hearts of the Dwarves to fathom.
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08-23-2004, 02:58 PM | #4 | |
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08-23-2004, 03:10 PM | #5 |
The Lovely Hobbit-Lass
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Whoa. There's a weird picture. Um, I don't think that Galadriel would have tempted him with that. I wonder if she tempted him at all. It doesn't seem that Elves exactly have the capacity to deign what is in the hearts of dwarves. Doesn't she actually have to ask what gift he would wish of the elves?
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It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year! |
08-23-2004, 03:30 PM | #6 |
Elven Warrior
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But this part is not of the gifts it is what she tempted them with in their minds and in thei hearts. I think i understand what your saying though, that she had a gift for everyone save Gimli, due to the fact elves know not how to apease the desires of dwarvs. but like i said in the previous post, Gimli after looking upon galadriel desired nothing over that ehich is fairer, Galadriel. I wonder if she did not tempt Gimli.
as for legolas, perhaps she tempted him with the beach, with the white gulls, and white ships... to sail to Valinor. It was in her warning message to him, go not to the seas... only othe difficult one is Aragorn. in the book what he desired was to be king and to do what was right, in the film he was reluctant ot become the king? So i would say in the book version, he was tempted with something similar to boromir, to have the ring, win the war, and save arwens life. not to mention with the ring he could live longer, if not forever with arwen.
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08-23-2004, 03:37 PM | #7 |
The Lovely Hobbit-Lass
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'save arwen'? I don't remember Arwen being in any danger in the books. Correct me?
I think maybe she did not exactly tempt all the members of the fellowship. I think what she did was point out their weaknesses. For Sam, she pointed out to him that he might not stay with his master if the price was high enough, and that weakness had to be reckoned with. For Aragorn and Legolas, perhaps the reason that they could endure her gaze was that they had no weaknesses of that kind, and perhaps she found them pure of heart, or at least purer than the rest.
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It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year! Last edited by Rosie Gamgee : 08-23-2004 at 03:40 PM. |
08-23-2004, 03:43 PM | #8 |
the Shrike
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I always assumed that Galadriel offered to take Frodo's burden, and let him return home. ::shrug::
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08-23-2004, 03:53 PM | #9 |
The Lovely Hobbit-Lass
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Interesting. I never really thought of that. Notice even Frodo could not long endure her gaze. I wonder...
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It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year! |
08-23-2004, 03:58 PM | #10 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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08-23-2004, 04:53 PM | #11 | |
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Not save arwen from imediate danger but from the fate of middle earth, save her from the wrath of Mordor. In the film this is made a huge deal between aragorn and arwen. when i say save i dont mean the end of her living life i mean her life with aragorn and her future and not going to valinor and saving that choice, as in making sure she has a future with aragorn with no sauron. Also I am pretty sure that Tolkien said that all of the company(save Gandalf) were tempted with something by Galadriel. I think that Legolas and Aragorn were uneffected due to their history, their elven blood(yes aragorn had some) and their relation with Galadriel. Legolas was an elf, in some way related to Galadriel as the wood elves and the lorien elves were intermingled. and aragorn had been to lorien many times, it is where he met arwen. the fact they were more pure of hart i think is also to account for ther "holding of the gaze" yet i dont think it is all of it because if it was they would be greater than even gandalf, for everyone has a breaking point withthe ring. except Bombadil
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08-23-2004, 05:21 PM | #12 | |
AngAdan
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08-23-2004, 06:04 PM | #13 | ||
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Merry and Pippin, compared to other members of the Fellowhip, didn't have much of a burden. Maybe they were tempted with a similar thing to Frodo - to have someone else competant to carry the burden for him so they could return to the Shire together, in safety.
If Gandalf had been present, what do you think he would have been offered? Edit: By the way, great thread idea Artanis!
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 08-23-2004 at 06:05 PM. Reason: by the way... |
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08-23-2004, 06:13 PM | #14 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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08-23-2004, 07:23 PM | #15 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
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I always thought she tempted them all with the ring. Aragorn knew he was tempted and therefore could withstand her gaze and Im sure LEgolas was used to it. GImli with the power to get all the gold he wanted with the ring. Boromir to save Gondor, Frodo to give someone else the ring. Merry and Pippen something frivolous. Aragorn- to live forever, save Godnor and basically make everyone happy. and Legolas with his own line of hair and body products.
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08-23-2004, 10:25 PM | #16 | |
AngAdan
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Quote:
" Ring: Put me on Bilbo and I will make you great. Bilbo: What's for Lunch. Ring: I will make the biggest hobbit in Hobbiton. Bilbo. It been almost 2 hours since evlensies and I am hungry. Ring: I will make you mayor of the shire. Bilbo: I fancy a nice BLT sandwich right now. Ring: I will make you Thain. Bilbo: UUmmm, Blt with extra crispy bacon... Ring:..You will be the Took... Bilbo: ...firm but not mealy tomato... Ring: ...Master of the great smials.... Bilbo: ...crunchey iceberg lettuce... Ring: ...and Master of buckland, that too... Biblo: ...now do I want whole wheat toast or sourdough toast?... Ring: ...IIRC correctly, you prefer whole wheat, back on topic, you will be master of Brandy hall... Bilbo:..My mother used to make a special mayonaise... Ring: ..A KING! I will make you King of Arthedain, how about that? Bilbo: ..It was very tangy, with vinegar and lemon and taragon.... Ring: ...ARRRGH! Arnor, all Arnor will be yours! Bilbo: ..I feel like extra bacon on it today Ring: ....I do not #$$%^%#%^^ make sandwhiches you know, I dominate and conquer! I am a ring of metal for Morgoth's sake! I can not even pick up the a knife to spread mayonaise. Come on now let's join Sauron and conquer the world. You will be Viceroy of all Eriador! Bilbo: Well then! if you are not going to make me my sandwich, it is back in the pocket for you until tea time, then we will see if you are any use. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 08-23-2004 at 10:29 PM. |
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08-23-2004, 10:32 PM | #17 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
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That was #@%$ing hilarious. By Eru I thgink that will be my next bit for declamation if you dont mind.
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08-24-2004, 02:11 AM | #18 | |
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Hahaha Lefty! And it is so true. And thanks Nurv!
I have wondered about Frodo. He didn't want to speak of his temptation, even when Boromir pressed him. What if he had been tempted to give the Ring to Boromir. Then he would himself be relieved of a great burden and perhaps be able to return to the Shire in peace, and Boromir would be given the chance to save Gondor. But I think Frodo knew in his heart that he had no other choice than to continue on his quest, even if the temptation was there all the time. Gimli - he didn't strike me as particularly greedy for gold and personal wealth. It's more likely that he was tempted with beauty. To take the Ring and then get the power to restore Moria? Or to leave the quest, and stay in Lórien with the beauty of Galadriel within sight? Legolas - how little we know of him! I think he has a lot in common with the Hobbits, in that he more than anything wants to live in peace in his beloved woods in his homeland. At that time he was not yet aware of the Sea, and what influence it would have on him. Perhaps he was offered to leave the quest too, and return home in honour. After all it was not required of neither him or Gimli to follow Frodo further than beyond the mountains. He was able to hold the gaze of Galadriel simply because he was an Elf I think, and he was used to her way of communication. He could choose whether he would let her get access to his thoughts or not. Aragorn - he was too well aware of his own desires to get shameful or surprised about them. And I think he also knew that the only way he could get what he wanted, was to keep to the purpose of the Fellowship and get the Ring destroyed. At his parting with Galadriel and Lórien he said to her: Quote:
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08-24-2004, 02:37 AM | #19 |
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But wouldnt it have made more sense to tempt them all with the ring. THat way Galadriel can determine how ings will play out. I think she tempted each withthe ring and telling them what it could do for them.
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08-24-2004, 03:44 AM | #20 |
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No ... I think she tempted only Boromir with the Ring, the others would rather get rid of the Ring than take it. Gimli, Legolas, Aragorn were all wise enough to know that the Ring would do no good for them. The Hobbits, even Frodo at that time, had too much respect and fear for the Ring to wish to wield it. Only Boromir was proud enough to believe himself capable of using the Ring to do good.
But if Gandalf had been there - HE would have been tempted with the Ring.
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