10-25-2003, 11:11 AM | #1 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Nature and origin of dragons
From some references to dragons in Middle-earth writings, and comments such as an old " Hobbit" thread "Dragon Info", started Dec., 24, 2002, it seems to me there are two possible explanations for the origin of dragons, both of which have problems.
1---they were maia (like balrogs) 2---they were a twisted race (like orcs) If maia, then why is it said that Morgoth (taking a long time to achieve it) "twisted them", wouldn't it have been a voluntary decision to make themselves incarnate? If a twisted "race", then where did they come from? Morgoth could not create life, and dragons could not come from kelvar, and presumably could not come from elves, men [hobbits are related to humans], ents, or dwarves. So what then would the origin of dragons be? The only possible "loophole" I can see is the eagles of Manwe, if you accept Robert Foster's view in the complete guide to Middle-earth "Apparently the Eagles of Manwe are the highest of the Kelvar, just as the Ents are of the olvar." So perhaps dragons are corrupted Great Eagles? But I had the impression that the predominant view is that the Eagles are maia.
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10-25-2003, 07:35 PM | #2 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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*Runs screaming from thread*
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10-25-2003, 09:05 PM | #3 |
Elf Lord
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Perhaps they were created in the same fashion as the beasts that Sauron bred for the Nazgul to ride? Doesn't really fit though since dragons were sentient beings rather than dumb beasts. I reckon I had best follow Attalus before I begin screaming as well.
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10-25-2003, 11:23 PM | #4 |
Lord of the Pants
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Not again!! *Runs away with Attalus*
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10-26-2003, 12:10 PM | #5 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Well they breed and mulitply, and have great socerous powers. I would have the GUESS that they are developed from both biologial stock and Mair ancestry, annalogus to Luthien.
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10-26-2003, 12:12 PM | #6 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Seriously, all that we know of the origins of dragons is that the first of them, Glaurung, appeared in one of Morgoth's fortresses, Angband, and was the father of all the rest.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
10-26-2003, 03:33 PM | #7 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Quote:
Sorry, just couldn't resist.
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10-29-2003, 02:28 PM | #8 |
Elf Lord
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There were plenty bizarre primitive beasts hanging around in the ancient ages--many animals in Valinor, for instance, have never been seen in Middle-earth. Then there are the creatures of horn and tusk (I think tusk) that dyed the earth with blood after the Spring of Arda in the primitive mythology. During the spring, Morgoth could have taken creatures of Oromë's vision, and corrupted them into Dragons. Perhaps he simply used primitive ancestors of the lizard to make Glaurung, he's lizard-like enough.
One thing is for sure though: Glaurung was animated because he was filled with the power and will of Morgoth. This is stated in the Narn-I-Chîn-Húrin. All Morgoth needed, then, was a body, and the life of the body would be his own dispersed self (as the life of the Ring was the will of Sauron).
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