Veritaserum..

[Radagast The Brown]

Did anyone else had a problem with the potion?

Not with the potion directly - but with what effects a potion of this kind should have. I mean, if it can tell you all the truth and only the truth - why do you actually need a court? Just give the accused the potion, and he'll tell you whether he did it or not. Obviously, the ministry of magic can afford the materials for such important cause if Snape can.

What do others think..? Is there any good excuse for not having the potion in courts?

[Rían]

Good point, Rad! Maybe wizards that are powerful enough to be in court can somehow overcome it?

Yeah, there's lots of little oddities like that in the books, IMO. "why didn't they just do such-and-such?" etc.

I guess Rowling didn't take as long over her books as JRRT did! But they're still enjoyable.

[inked]

CoNsIsTeNcY iS tHe HoBgObLiN oF lItTlE mInDs, Ya'Ll.

I think there are constraints on the Wizengamot similar to our British and American systems of trial by law. That is, trial by evidence before a jury of your peers. It is often ignored as in the case of Rubeus Hagrid and Sirius, but even when improperly used (as in the trial of Harry re: Dementor attacks and use of magic), there is the necessity of preserving form.

Besides, use of veritaserum would scarcely make the plot go round, would it?
It's rather like Gollum's escape from the elves! Is that totally consistent with Legolas' demeanor (well, maybe if they were related to the naughty elves at Rivendell in the Hobbit!)?

[IronParrot]

I think - and this is just my theorizing in order to justify a potential loophole Rowling left open - that the use of veritaserum could be restricted on ethical grounds. It's essentially a "non-painful" form of torture to extract information, possibly far more information than you need. That doesn't sound like due process to me, and the fairness of due process is essential to a justice system that presumes innocence. Basically, what I'm saying is that the use of veritaserum in the first place presumes that the defendant has something to spill - never mind the potential use of leading questions to produce limited testimony.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by IronParrot

I think - and this is just my theorizing in order to justify a potential loophole Rowling left open - that the use of veritaserum could be restricted on ethical grounds. It's essentially a "non-painful" form of torture to extract information, possibly far more information than you need. That doesn't sound like due process to me, and the fairness of due process is essential to a justice system that presumes innocence. Basically, what I'm saying is that the use of veritaserum in the first place presumes that the defendant has something to spill - never mind the potential use of leading questions to produce limited testimony.

Maybe you're right - but then, after the accused is going to be sent to prison, wouldn't it be better to give him Veritaserum? Maybe with his agreement, knowing he's right?
Furthermore - why would the Ministry actually ask the caught Death Eaters for names, and not just give them Veritaserum and get it out of them? How is it inappropriate, while killing them isn't?

Originally Posted by inked

Besides, use of veritaserum would scarcely make the plot go round, would it?

Then I suppose she should've thought about it before she had decided to have it in her books.

[IronParrot]

Hmm... the plot thickens.

As far as why you wouldn't just administer veritaserum to get people to name names... well, I think there's a certain value in being able to identify who's willing to name names and who isn't. Those who are willing to switch allegiances again do so at their own peril - just look at Karkaroff. It says something about whether or not they should be reintegrated into wizarding society. (Then again, given Crouch's rather McCarthian crusade, maybe this isn't a significant boon.)

Then the question is, why don't you just administer veritaserum to those who weren't willing to name names? Because then you'd create an incentive for them to testify, thus obscuring the difference I mentioned above - or, alternatively, offer false testimony.

And then we're right back where we started.

[tolkienfan]

The Ministry does use it, because Dumbledore said the Ministry thought there was no reason to use it on Morfin. (because he confessed)

[Lord Choc Obo]

doesn't snape or DD say something about powerfull magicians being able to counterwork the potion (by taking an antidote before, by pure magic?) and if they knew Legilimens well enough they could just lie without the Wizengamot even noticing.

Snape for example could very well make some sort of antidote that works long enough and lie after taking the Veritaserum. by blocking of his mind (even DD couldn't break it, or that's what we think at the moment) no one wuld know he lied and everyone could take HP for the HBP or even a death eater if Snape told so

[Rconsole]

Originally Posted by Lord Choc Obo

doesn't snape or DD say something about powerfull magicians being able to counterwork the potion (by taking an antidote before, by pure magic?) and if they knew Legilimens well enough they could just lie without the Wizengamot even noticing.

Snape for example could very well make some sort of antidote that works long enough and lie after taking the Veritaserum. by blocking of his mind (even DD couldn't break it, or that's what we think at the moment) no one wuld know he lied and everyone could take HP for the HBP or even a death eater if Snape told so

There must be a spell or even a potion that would make you impervious to the effects of other potions...

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by tolkienfan

The Ministry does use it, because Dumbledore said the Ministry thought there was no reason to use it on Morfin. (because he confessed)

I started the thread before the 6th book.

Now I read something Rowling said about the potion, and I don't really like it:

Veritaserum works best upon the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled (in one way or another) to protect themselves against it. Barty Crouch had been attacked before the potion was given to him and was still very groggy, otherwise he could have employed a range of measures against the Potion - he might have sealed his own throat and faked a declaration of innocence, transformed the Potion into something else before it touched his lips, or employed Occlumency against its effects. In other words, just like every other kind of magic within the books, Veritaserum is not infallible. As some wizards can prevent themselves being affected, and others cannot, it is an unfair and unreliable tool to use at a trial.

By JK Rowling. IMO it's just her trying to evade admitting she hadn't thought about it. Or strated thinking about it after she already wrote the first book where it appeared, Maybe it was the first even.. oh, fourth I tihnk, Snape threatening Harry to use it on him.

But that's just my opinion.

[tolkienfan]

Oops double post.

[tolkienfan]

When you started this thread I thought about it a lot, (it's an interesting subject) so when I was rereading HBP I saw that the ministry uses it and just wanted to mention it.

[durinsbane2244]

good theories here. . .