12-05-2004, 06:05 PM | #1 |
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What Was the Purpose of the 2 Blue Wizards
In one of the books, Tolkien states that along with Gandalf(the Grey), Saruman(the White) and Radagast(the Brown)
came 2 un-named wizards, and all that we know about them is that they were robed in blue, so the obvious question is, what was the purpose of the 2 Blue wizards, because they are never mentioned in the core LoTR books, and is never mentioned by either Gandalf, Saruman or Radagast. So i would like to hear your ideas... |
12-05-2004, 06:34 PM | #2 |
avocatus diaboli
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An interesting question, I think.
This is, of course, mere conjecture, and I could easily be proven wrong by anyone with more knowledge of HoME. Gandalf (and arguably Radagast, though to a lesser degree) was the only wizard to remain loyal to the cause that the Valar had given them. He was the only one to stand beside the people of Middle Earth against Sauron in the war at the end of the Third Age. Making him the only one out of 3 wizards, to me, doesn't have as much of an impact as making him the only one out of 5. If 4 fell two inaction (and in Saruman's case, opposition), to me it speaks more for the difficulty of their task, even for Maiar, than if only 2 were disloyal (again, Radagast can be debated). It's the only idea I can come up with, at present. Anyone else... btw, I have no documentation, but I've seen in at least one forum the names "Pallando" and "Alatar" given to the blue wizards. Are these real names? ps... welcome to the Moot, ItalianLegolas! Hope you enjoy it!
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12-05-2004, 06:51 PM | #3 |
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The two Blue Wizards, Alatair and Pallandro, were said by JRRT in the Letters to have gone into the East, presumably to Harad or the environs, and further were said to have failed. I don't have the reference at hand, but a few moments work with the Index should turn them up.
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12-05-2004, 07:08 PM | #4 |
The Insufferable
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The purpose of the Blue Wizards was the same as the purpose of the other three.
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12-05-2004, 07:40 PM | #5 |
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In Radagast's case, i think, it was more of a case of blind trust/stupidity(they may be the same), as opposed to inaction/un-loyalness to the cause.
in response to Wayfarer, if it is true that they went into the East, is it not also possible that they, like Saruman were turned from there good ways and into the Dark-Lords service? Is it also possible, that maybe they came to rule Harad? or did they return to the West with their task unfinished? |
12-05-2004, 07:48 PM | #6 |
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Yes.
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12-06-2004, 01:10 AM | #7 |
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Been a few threads on these guys. A quick search will turn up the threads, and the sources.
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12-06-2004, 01:17 AM | #8 |
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http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...&threadid=6793
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...Wizards+colors http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?s=...ht=blue+wizard
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12-06-2004, 07:44 AM | #9 |
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Wayfarer is correct as far as the 'Purpose Statement' goes.
For the names, and a bit more information, there's a section of 'Unfinished Tales' that can be of interest. Appropriately enough, a chapter called 'The Istari'. Tolkien actually speculates in a couple different directions about them - if he ever made up his mind for sure, I don't know which one he settled on. One - that they either became ineffective or were the source of 'false religions' in the eastern parts of Middle Earth, by which we might guess that the people there were more easily ensnared by Sauron. The other - that they WERE effective and faithful to their purpose - with a sort of 'who knows how bad things would have been without them' kind of statement. In any case, I believe there's mention someplace that the two went into the east with Saruman, and that he eventually returned alone. Say ... you don't suppose that HE might have ...
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12-06-2004, 10:20 AM | #10 |
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I think that those referenced wizards could have been the logical connection for a sequel to LOTR had there been time or inclination on JRRT's part. But the reference to their failure is I think meant to be understood in the 3 responses we see in LOTR. One could become so absorbed in the delights and preoccupations of ME that one lost sight of one's goal without becoming actively evil a la Radagast. One then becomes a dupe for the actively evil a la Saruman in which the submission to evil is complete. Finally, one could stay true to one's mission even with intermittent failures a la Gandalf.
I think the reason we are given the existence of the Istari and these known outcomes per the LOTR and related works is that we are meant to reflect on the modes by which any cause or faith is adhered to, won, or lost. The subcreation models the real world of our existence. For any cause we ourselves may be traitors a la Saruman, indifferent a la Radagast, or faithful servants even with errors and mistakes a la Gandalf. There are gradations in these responses of course. But there are no other responses available in fact in ME or our primary world. Much food for thought in this matter. Keep on thinking!
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12-06-2004, 08:03 PM | #11 |
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couldn't it also just be that they were characters that Tolkien put in but never fully developed?
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12-06-2004, 09:45 PM | #12 |
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Hey, IL, you aska da questions, you getta da answers! And ya gonna like it, see!?!
Yeah, to your last.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
12-07-2004, 10:58 AM | #13 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Quote:
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12-07-2004, 11:06 AM | #14 |
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JRRT's earlier ideas [in UT and the letters] about the Blue wizard's mission was more pessimistic )presummed failure) than his later ideas. His later notes idicate that they had done more to prevent even larger hordes from the East over running the west. comparing all the material on them give a very sad insight into JRRT final years, with a note indicating that he could not locate nor much remember what he had previously written about them.
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12-07-2004, 11:08 AM | #15 | |
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Quote:
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12-11-2004, 03:09 PM | #16 |
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i don't think Tolkiend ever says what radagast's mission was, maybe it was the same as gandalf's but then radadast became obsessed with animals...
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12-13-2004, 11:55 PM | #17 |
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weren't all of their missions basically the same?
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12-14-2004, 12:20 AM | #18 |
Elven Warrior
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i found this website that has alot of info on the two wizards apparently they were maier of orome (since they would be travelling all the way to the east) but anyway ill let u read the rest:
http://www.lotrlibrary.com/agesofarda/bluewizards.asp
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12-14-2004, 03:48 PM | #19 |
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that's interesting Manveru, that was what I always thought, that they were just undeveloped, or forgotten characters
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12-14-2004, 03:58 PM | #20 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I don't think they were forgotten, since JRRT was writing about him in the last weeks of his life.
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