Blame Fëanor

[Elemmírë]

Several of us decided in another thread that everything in ME that ever went wrong is Fëanor's fault.

Now we're out to prove it.

Who's with us?

Or against?

[Count Comfect]

How about the initial songs of Morgoth when he flouted Eru? Was that Feänor's fault too?

[Elemmírë]

Give us time. We'll prove it. Not sure how strong our logic will be... but...

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

How about the initial songs of Morgoth when he flouted Eru? Was that Feänor's fault too?

*shakes magic 8 ball*
"Ask again later, silly head, answer unclear."

[Elemmírë]

I'll work on that one. It probably will end up being the only really tricky one.

Here's Chrys's earlier reason why Maeglin's turning bad was Fëanor's fault (and the reason behind this thread):

Originally Posted by Last Child Of Ungoliant

maeglin had god intentions until he saw idril, if it weren't for eol ensnaring aredhel, maeglin wouldn't even be born, if it weren't for feanor's stoopid oath, aredhel, turgon et al wouldn't even be in beleriand

I can link anything back to ol' hothead Feanor

So, Maeglin's fall and as a result the Fall of Gondolin are Fëanor's fault.

Any others while we work on the Ainulindalë problem? And trust me, we will. We will.

[Manveru]

i think its more Morgoth's fault than Feanor's. But then you could say it was Iluvatar's fault for creating Melkor...

[Elemmírë]

Be careful with that particular claim. It's not always well accepted.

Hey, does retroactive blame count? I say it does.

This is going to be a hard idea to accept, and totally disbands the idea of free will. If one believes in fate, and I mean completely believes in fate, then it would seem that everything that occurred in the past perhaps did so only to effect what would occur in the future.

From my brand new (second edition ) not health-hazardous copy of the Silm, about Námo Mandos:

He forgets nothing; and he knows all things that shall be, save only those that lie still in the freedom of Ilúvatar.

This supports the idea that much of free will is an illusion. All of it, indeed, since the rest lies with Eru still.

Few can doubt that much of what happened (we're going to say all ) in the First Age, and after, hinged on Fëanor's actions. Now... since music is often used in the Silmarillion, is it not so that a piece of music often builds up towards a climax? In this case, what comes before also is somewhat dependent upon what occurs after.

Now, if we bring this logic back full circle to Fëanor, we will assuredly be able to prove (in this circuitous manner) that Fëanor is in deed responsible for almost everything.

[Beren3000]

Go, Elemmire! (I knew that deep down inside you were a Fëanorophobic after all ) Good idea for a thread.
My way of blaming it all on Fëanor: none of what had happened would have if Fëanor had just given the Silmarils over to Yavanna. Arda would still have the two trees, the West wouldn't be hidden, the Valar would've fought Morgoth much earlier, etc...
♪Blame Fëanor......♪ Blame Fëanor......♪

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

?Blame Fëanor......? Blame Fëanor......?

I presume that you're singing that to the tune of "Blame Canada"
Don't get me wrong, I <3 Canada.

edit: when i post, the notes dissappear...arg to the fullest extent of argness possible.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Go, Elemmire! (I knew that deep down inside you were a Fëanorophobic after all ) Good idea for a thread.
My way of blaming it all on Fëanor: none of what had happened would have if Fëanor had just given the Silmarils over to Yavanna. Arda would still have the two trees, the West wouldn't be hidden, the Valar would've fought Morgoth much earlier, etc...
♪Blame Fëanor......♪ Blame Fëanor......♪

I figured you'd be coming over. That makes it you, me, Em, and Chrys against... so far, everyone else.

Of course I'm a Fëanorophobic. After all, I'm a Finrodomaniac! I just happen to like several of Fëanor's sons, and think he was a rotten father to boot.

If I could forgive him for anything else (which I can't. I'm Teleri at heart ), I couldn't forgive him for his dying wish for vengeance...

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Embladyne

I presume that you're singing that to the tune of "Blame Canada"
Don't get me wrong, I <3 Canada.

Yes, that's the tune!
I'm not sure what you mean by <3 but, I gotta say I didn't mean this song as an offense to anyone Canadian, I just used the tune!

Originally Posted by Elemmire

I figured you'd be coming over. That makes it you, me, Em, and Chrys against... so far, everyone else.

Fear not, truth shall come to light!

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Yes, that's the tune!
I'm not sure what you mean by <3 but, I gotta say I didn't mean this song as an offense to anyone Canadian, I just used the tune!

Fear not, truth shall come to light!

the "<3" is a heart turned on it's side. Yeah...I was hoping not to arg off any Canadians.
And we shall bring light to the world...

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Manveru

i think its more Morgoth's fault than Feanor's. But then you could say it was Iluvatar's fault for creating Melkor...

It was because of Fëanor, not Morgoth that the Noldor went into exile. All in all I think yes. Blame Fëanor!

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

It was because of Fëanor, not Morgoth that the Noldor went into exile. All in all I think yes. Blame Fëanor!

Indeed. I agree with Beren. The Valar might not have turned their backs on ME and its inhabitants if not for Fëanor's rebellion.

Blame Fëanor!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

The Sinking of Numenor was Feanor's fault.

If he had not made his stoopid oath, the noldor would not be in beleriand, hence tuor and idril would never meet, hence no earendil, hence no elrond or elros, hence no lines of numenorean kings, hence no Ar-Pharazon, hence no taking Sauron to Numenor, hence no Sauron poisoning Ar-Pharazon's mind more than it was already, hence no Numenorean fleet attempting to wrest Aman from the Valar, hence no Manwe calling upon Eru to sink that little island.

I rest my case, M'Lud!

[Valandil]

That Morgoth was ultimately defeated? Should we blame Feanor for that one too?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

BTW, Ar-Pharazon seems to be the equivalent of feanor among men, dont you think
here is my list of 'bad-eggs'

Ainur - Morgoth/Sauron/Saruman/Balrogs
Elves - Feanor/Eol/Maeglin/Curufin
Men - Easterlings/Southrons/Ar-Pharazon
Dwarves - Mim/Ibin/His other son (forgot his name)
Hobbits - Lotho S-B/Ted Sandyman
Others - Old Man Willow/Caradhras the Cruel/Trolls/Orcs

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Valandil

That Morgoth was ultimately defeated? Should we blame Feanor for that one too?

That one would have to be more Eärendil's fault, methinks.

Though... you could link it back all the way. He did so much to counter that final result, though, that it becomes rather implausible.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Valandil

That Morgoth was ultimately defeated? Should we blame Feanor for that one too?

As I've said above, if Fëanor hadn't incurred the wrath of the Valar by refusing the Silmarils to Yavanna, they could've helped with Morgoth hundreds of years earlier. So if you're saying we should blame Fëanor that Morgoth was defeated late, then I agree

[Elemmírë]

Well spoken, Beren. Well spoken.