Narya Healed The King?

zavron · 01-04-2003, 09:42 AM

It is said that Narya had the abillity to Warm the heart and awaken the spirit. Did Gandalf use Narya secretly on King Theoden?

zavron · 01-04-2003, 03:02 PM

What do you think?

Artanis · 01-04-2003, 03:08 PM

Good point zavron, I think he could have used the power of his ring to strengthen the spirit of Theoden. From the book I get the impression that Gandalf uses the power of his staff to set Theoden free, but using the ring also makes sense.

BeardofPants · 01-04-2003, 04:31 PM

I doubt he would have used the ring so openly. Wouldn't that have been a beacon for Sauron?

Elf Girl · 01-04-2003, 04:36 PM

I don't think so, since Sauron never touched the Elven-Rings, he would not have recognized it if he "felt" the surge of power. He would probably recognize the power of the staff better.

BeardofPants · 01-04-2003, 06:23 PM

Yeah, but weren't the rings supposed to be kept in secret?

Artanis · 01-04-2003, 06:33 PM

I think at that time secrecy was not crucial anymore. The most important thing was to draw attention away from the Ringbearer.

Lefty Scaevola · 01-04-2003, 06:41 PM

I have always believed that Narya was instrumental in Mithrandirs power to rekindle hope and courage.

cassiopeia · 01-05-2003, 01:15 AM

I don't know if Gandalf used the power of the ring on Theoden, but I don't think he needed it. From the Sil:

Quote:

But of Olorin that tale does not speak; for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put into their hearts. In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Iluvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.

So Olorin/Gandalf could 'awaken the spirit' before he got Narya from Cirdan.

Artanis · 01-05-2003, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cassiopeia
So Olorin/Gandalf could 'awaken the spirit' before he got Narya from Cirdan.

But this time he was facing the power of Sarumann. Through Wormtongue though, but still.

markedel · 01-05-2003, 04:11 PM

The rings were used, but no one knew who used them or what their effects were. At least that's what I understood.

Shadowfax · 01-05-2003, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cassiopeia
So Olorin/Gandalf could 'awaken the spirit' before he got Narya from Cirdan.

He always had the ring, as soon as he arrived in Middle Earth at the Grey Havens, Cirdan gave him Narya, it says in Unfinished Tales:

Quote:

But Cirdan from their first meeting at the Grey Havens divined in him the greatest spirit and the wisest; and he welcomed him with reverence, and he gave to his keeping the Third Ring, Narya, the Red.

cassiopeia · 01-06-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowfax
He always had the ring, as soon as he arrived in Middle Earth at the Grey Havens, Cirdan gave him Narya, it says in Unfinished Tales:

I know, but from the passage I quoted from the Sil, I assumed it meant the first and second age, before he received the ring.

***Khamûl*** · 01-06-2003, 02:13 AM

I think that Gandalf always had that power, but Narya just enhanced it. I don't think that he used it openly, otherwise it would have made some sort of point in the book that he used it. And even if he did use it, I don't believe Sauron would have known, because he didn't have the One Ring.

Findegil · 01-06-2003, 07:44 AM

Imagine Gandalf used the Ring in his healing of Theoden: We did not know from which person Frodo got his report to write this section of the bock, but clearly not from Gandalf since we did not learn what he told Theoden at the steps of Meduseld. So the reporter could be either Aragron, Legolas or Gimli or two or all of them. But since Frodo did not tell us that Narya was used it thems to me that non of the reporters had marked that.

What i mean is that Gandlaf could have used the ring without anyone in the hall seeing it. Lock at Galadriel. She used her ring clearly. Any member of the Fellowship marked the effect. But only Frodo the Ringbearer could see her wearing the ring and even he only after she revealls it to him.

So Gandalf proberbly did use Narya to heal Theoden.

Respectfully
Findegil

Beleg Strongbow · 01-06-2003, 09:24 AM

I'm sure he did. Cirdan: "For it is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that has grown weary."

Or something like that. That was Gandalf's natural power, and it seems obvious he would have used it to rally the Free Peoples against Sauron.

Nice point, Zavron. I never thought of that.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-08-2003, 05:21 AM

Maybe he used the staff to draw attention away from the subtle use of the ring. This is one possible hypothesis.

Beleg Strongbow · 01-08-2003, 02:32 PM

That makes sense. Like he used his staff at Bilbo's farewell party to hide Bilbo's putting one the ring.

zavron · 01-08-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Maybe he used the staff to draw attention away from the subtle use of the ring. This is one possible hypothesis.

Yeah he could have done.

Nobody really Knows how the Rings of Power work, so nobody knows if anyone can see it beeing used, can they? For the exception of The One ring that is, because that turns mortals Invisible.

Beleg Strongbow · 01-08-2003, 02:36 PM

All of the "evil" rings ( the one and the nine ) made their wearer fade -- If he was MORTAL. Sauron wasn't invisible when he wore it. Doubtful that elves would be either. The rings granted PATHS to their wearer.
paths = power according to his stature (popular abbreviation from the Lord of the Rings trading card game)

I think it would be a very subtle effect when one of the 3 was used

01-04-2003, 09:42 AM	#1
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	Narya Healed The King? It is said that Narya had the abillity to Warm the heart and awaken the spirit. Did Gandalf use Narya secretly on King Theoden? __________________ Visit http://nilore.suddenlaunch2.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ''ASH NAZG DUBARTULUK, ASH NAZG GIMBATUL, ASH NAZG THRAKATULUK AGH BURZUM--ISHI KRIMPATUL...ash nazg, ash nazg......'' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil- galad was an elven king. Of him the harpers sadly sing: the last whose realm was fair and free between the mountains and the sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shinig helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; for into darkness fell his star in mordor where the shadows are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

01-04-2003, 03:02 PM	#2
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	What do you think? __________________ Visit http://nilore.suddenlaunch2.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ''ASH NAZG DUBARTULUK, ASH NAZG GIMBATUL, ASH NAZG THRAKATULUK AGH BURZUM--ISHI KRIMPATUL...ash nazg, ash nazg......'' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil- galad was an elven king. Of him the harpers sadly sing: the last whose realm was fair and free between the mountains and the sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shinig helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; for into darkness fell his star in mordor where the shadows are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

01-04-2003, 03:08 PM	#3
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Good point zavron, I think he could have used the power of his ring to strengthen the spirit of Theoden. From the book I get the impression that Gandalf uses the power of his staff to set Theoden free, but using the ring also makes sense. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

01-04-2003, 04:31 PM	#4
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I doubt he would have used the ring so openly. Wouldn't that have been a beacon for Sauron? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

01-04-2003, 04:36 PM	#5
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	I don't think so, since Sauron never touched the Elven-Rings, he would not have recognized it if he "felt" the surge of power. He would probably recognize the power of the staff better. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

01-04-2003, 06:23 PM	#6
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yeah, but weren't the rings supposed to be kept in secret? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

01-04-2003, 06:33 PM	#7
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I think at that time secrecy was not crucial anymore. The most important thing was to draw attention away from the Ringbearer. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

01-04-2003, 06:41 PM	#8
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	I have always believed that Narya was instrumental in Mithrandirs power to rekindle hope and courage.

01-05-2003, 04:11 PM	#11
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	The rings were used, but no one knew who used them or what their effects were. At least that's what I understood. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-06-2003, 02:13 AM	#14
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	I think that Gandalf always had that power, but Narya just enhanced it. I don't think that he used it openly, otherwise it would have made some sort of point in the book that he used it. And even if he did use it, I don't believe Sauron would have known, because he didn't have the One Ring. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

01-06-2003, 07:44 AM	#15
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	Imagine Gandalf used the Ring in his healing of Theoden: We did not know from which person Frodo got his report to write this section of the bock, but clearly not from Gandalf since we did not learn what he told Theoden at the steps of Meduseld. So the reporter could be either Aragron, Legolas or Gimli or two or all of them. But since Frodo did not tell us that Narya was used it thems to me that non of the reporters had marked that. What i mean is that Gandlaf could have used the ring without anyone in the hall seeing it. Lock at Galadriel. She used her ring clearly. Any member of the Fellowship marked the effect. But only Frodo the Ringbearer could see her wearing the ring and even he only after she revealls it to him. So Gandalf proberbly did use Narya to heal Theoden. Respectfully Findegil

01-06-2003, 09:24 AM	#16
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	I'm sure he did. Cirdan: "For it is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that has grown weary." Or something like that. That was Gandalf's natural power, and it seems obvious he would have used it to rally the Free Peoples against Sauron. Nice point, Zavron. I never thought of that. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

01-08-2003, 02:32 PM	#18
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	That makes sense. Like he used his staff at Bilbo's farewell party to hide Bilbo's putting one the ring. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

01-08-2003, 02:36 PM	#20
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	All of the "evil" rings ( the one and the nine ) made their wearer fade -- If he was MORTAL. Sauron wasn't invisible when he wore it. Doubtful that elves would be either. The rings granted PATHS to their wearer. paths = power according to his stature (popular abbreviation from the Lord of the Rings trading card game) I think it would be a very subtle effect when one of the 3 was used __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

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