Are stupid outlandish names necessary in sci-fi/fantasy?

***IronParrot*** · 03-08-2003, 08:02 PM

More often than not, they just serve to confuse the heck out of me rather than absorb me into some make-believe world.

Guys like Tolkien I can understand - he's all systematic about it, and it's easy to glean stuff based on his linguistic patterns and such, and at least he still leaves very Anglicized hobbit-names intact. But all his imitators and emulators make a complete mess out of naming conventions and just seem to come up with the most ridiculously unpronounceable names that are also impossible to remember.

ArwenEvenstar · 03-08-2003, 08:20 PM

you have a point, but sometimes making up names is fun.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-08-2003, 08:58 PM

I don't really see a problem with it. What names specifically were you thinking of?

Linaewen · 03-09-2003, 02:16 AM

Not necessary but it helps
Encarta definition for fantasy : form of literature that describes the impossible and makes little or no attempt to achieve realistic effects.

So it'd be weird if you had this absolutely fantastical world that is just SO different from ours, and you had characters called Bob or something.

Lief Erikson · 03-09-2003, 04:34 AM

Very good point. They just seem our worldish- they've been around in our world for years. Farther back cultures, like the Saxons or Dains, had their own names and those names were strange. That was still in our world also. Names change with times and places and the names that are current and easily memorable to people now are current and memorable now- that's just the problem. It is precisely because of how normal they are that they make the fantasy story seem as though it's a part of our world. If people in ancient times had the same names as we have now and the names never changed, that time period would feel like our world. It also would be annoying to have Caesar's name replaced with Bob's

. I think it's because those names feel so modern and so linked to our own time that they simply won't do in a fantasy setting.

So allow some fun poetic license

.

One thing that I personally enjoy about the strange names is that when writing them, I can put some of the character of an individual into their name. The name of the person sounds like the character the person has. It's that way to me in my books, anyway. I was very, very selective about the true name for my primary villain in The Uirlon Cord, for example. He's a very complex character so it was interesting trying to find just the right name for him. He wasn't always bad, you see. So I had to make a name that could work as bad or good

.

Sylvee Estel · 03-09-2003, 01:48 PM

I think that different names help absorb you into a different world or whatever, but some names just go too far. Some books have really long hard to pronounce names. Those just annoy me.

Lief Erikson · 03-09-2003, 04:17 PM

The primary difficulty that I've had, as far as I remember at the moment, is with very long and complex names that are very similar to each other in the same book.

Coney · 03-09-2003, 04:27 PM

Some writers definitly go a little overboard.

I think amongst all the fantasy writers I've read that David Eddings got the naming of his characters the closest to being correct.

He gave many of his characters wildly impressive names and then shortened them when characters addressed each other, as often happens in real life anyway. Many of his characters had working nicknames as well.........for me it added empathy to the characters without diminishing them....

(Polgara became Pol, Belgarion - 'Garion etc)

ArwenEvenstar · 03-09-2003, 06:23 PM

i agree with Coney i dont remember the name of the book (

) but the names were like this long (___________________) and I got so frustrated I put it down and eventually sold it at a garage sale

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-10-2003, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
Some writers definitly go a little overboard.

I think amongst all the fantasy writers I've read that David Eddings got the naming of his characters the closest to being correct.

He gave many of his characters wildly impressive names and then shortened them when characters addressed each other, as often happens in real life anyway. Many of his characters had working nicknames as well.........for me it added empathy to the characters without diminishing them....

(Polgara became Pol, Belgarion - 'Garion etc)

Actually, Garion wasn't a nickname, so much as a name 'in hiding'. The 'Bel' prefix denoted a sorcerer, if I remember correctly. So, while 'Belgarion' was his true name, he was just called Garion, so that other forces (i.e. servants of Torak) wouldn't know of his heritage. After his name 'Belgarion' was given, he'd been Garion all of his life, so he just stayed Garion. Same with Polgara; her name was shortened to hide her true identity, and when she was revealed, he'd been calling her Pol all of his life, so he kept calling her Pol. I don't remember very many nicknames, actually (unless you count Silk :P).

OT:
I've forgotten a few of the characters names.

Belgarath's wife was Poledra, and his one daughter was Polgara, and the other was Beldaran, I think, but I'm not sure. Also, the other sorcerers were Beltira and Belkira (the twins), but I cannot for the life of me yank the grumpy old hunchbacks name out! Any Eddings fans remember it?

Coney · 03-10-2003, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Actually, Garion wasn't a nickname, so much as a name 'in hiding'. The 'Bel' prefix denoted a sorcerer, if I remember correctly. So, while 'Belgarion' was his true name, he was just called Garion, so that other forces (i.e. servants of Torak) wouldn't know of his heritage. After his name 'Belgarion' was given, he'd been Garion all of his life, so he just stayed Garion. Same with Polgara; her name was shortened to hide her true identity, and when she was revealed, he'd been calling her Pol all of his life, so he kept calling her Pol. I don't remember very many nicknames, actually (unless you count Silk :P).

OT:
I've forgotten a few of the characters names. Belgarath's wife was Poledra, and his one daughter was Polgara, and the other was Beldaran, I think, but I'm not sure. Also, the other sorcerers were Beltira and Belkira (the twins), but I cannot for the life of me yank the grumpy old hunchbacks name out! Any Eddings fans remember it?

Beldin

Keldar used half a dozen different nicknames....Belgarath had quite a few as well.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-10-2003, 10:46 AM

Of course, Beldin! *smacks self*

Kheldar, Silk, it's all the same thing. :P I don't think Belgarath really had all that many, did he? Just 'Mister Wolf' and 'under-cover' names.

ArwenEvenstar · 03-10-2003, 02:23 PM

what books are u people talking about?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-10-2003, 04:30 PM

The Belgariad and the Malloreon, two five book series by David Eddings. Quite entertaining, indeed.

sun-star · 03-12-2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

More often than not, they just serve to confuse the heck out of me rather than absorb me into some make-believe world.

I agree. Too often complicated names feel like self-indulgence on the part of the author - fun to write, but no fun to read, IMO. In Tolkien, the names all make sense and I can tolerate them, but still I prefer the ones which are closest to our world but not quite the same - Samwise, for example. But generally, pretentious names and manners of speech are the reason why I don't read fantasy that often.

The only exception is Narnia. I love the name "Caspian"

Belle · 03-12-2003, 03:09 PM

Awww, Narnia, my dad read that to me when I was small, and I recently read them again. There was so much a didn't understand first time round, and now the parallel with the story of Jesus is so obvious.

Blackboar · 03-12-2003, 03:16 PM

I often put strange names in my story, but I keep them short and simple, and they have a meaning, they are usually combined Old forgotten English words.

But going through my stoy again, I think I might change some names.

FrodoFriend · 03-13-2003, 09:13 AM

"Fantasy" sounding names usually just tick me off. I think it's a good idea if there's some sort of system to it - for example, Orson Scott Wells in one of his books give all his characters Russian-sounding names, because they are the descendants of astronauts on a Russian spaceship who colonized another planet. This is cool because it makes sense and makes the names distinctive. But authors who just come up with random blubberish - well, that's lame.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-13-2003, 02:07 PM

Would you prefer elves named Jimmy and dwarves name Joe-Bob?

Elvengirl · 03-13-2003, 07:28 PM

I like the unique outlandish names. It helps tranport you to the world. Though some authors do get carried away.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Would you prefer elves named Jimmy and dwarves name Joe-Bob?

Can you imagine Gandalf having a name like Billy-Bob

03-08-2003, 08:02 PM	#1
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	Are stupid outlandish names necessary in sci-fi/fantasy? More often than not, they just serve to confuse the heck out of me rather than absorb me into some make-believe world. Guys like Tolkien I can understand - he's all systematic about it, and it's easy to glean stuff based on his linguistic patterns and such, and at least he still leaves very Anglicized hobbit-names intact. But all his imitators and emulators make a complete mess out of naming conventions and just seem to come up with the most ridiculously unpronounceable names that are also impossible to remember. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

03-08-2003, 08:20 PM	#2
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	you have a point, but sometimes making up names is fun. __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

03-08-2003, 08:58 PM	#3
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I don't really see a problem with it. What names specifically were you thinking of? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-09-2003, 01:48 PM	#6
Sylvee Estel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 115	I think that different names help absorb you into a different world or whatever, but some names just go too far. Some books have really long hard to pronounce names. Those just annoy me. __________________ ~Sylvee

03-09-2003, 04:27 PM	#8
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	Some writers definitly go a little overboard. I think amongst all the fantasy writers I've read that David Eddings got the naming of his characters the closest to being correct. He gave many of his characters wildly impressive names and then shortened them when characters addressed each other, as often happens in real life anyway. Many of his characters had working nicknames as well.........for me it added empathy to the characters without diminishing them.... (Polgara became Pol, Belgarion - 'Garion etc) __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

03-09-2003, 02:16 AM	#4
Linaewen Fair Dinkum Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,319	Not necessary but it helps Encarta definition for fantasy : form of literature that describes the impossible and makes little or no attempt to achieve realistic effects. So it'd be weird if you had this absolutely fantastical world that is just SO different from ours, and you had characters called Bob or something.

03-09-2003, 04:34 AM	#5
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Very good point. They just seem our worldish- they've been around in our world for years. Farther back cultures, like the Saxons or Dains, had their own names and those names were strange. That was still in our world also. Names change with times and places and the names that are current and easily memorable to people now are current and memorable now- that's just the problem. It is precisely because of how normal they are that they make the fantasy story seem as though it's a part of our world. If people in ancient times had the same names as we have now and the names never changed, that time period would feel like our world. It also would be annoying to have Caesar's name replaced with Bob's . I think it's because those names feel so modern and so linked to our own time that they simply won't do in a fantasy setting. So allow some fun poetic license . One thing that I personally enjoy about the strange names is that when writing them, I can put some of the character of an individual into their name. The name of the person sounds like the character the person has. It's that way to me in my books, anyway. I was very, very selective about the true name for my primary villain in The Uirlon Cord, for example. He's a very complex character so it was interesting trying to find just the right name for him. He wasn't always bad, you see. So I had to make a name that could work as bad or good .

03-09-2003, 04:17 PM	#7
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	The primary difficulty that I've had, as far as I remember at the moment, is with very long and complex names that are very similar to each other in the same book.

03-09-2003, 06:23 PM	#9
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	i agree with Coney i dont remember the name of the book () but the names were like this long (___________________) and I got so frustrated I put it down and eventually sold it at a garage sale __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

03-10-2003, 10:46 AM	#12
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Of course, Beldin! smacks self Kheldar, Silk, it's all the same thing. :P I don't think Belgarath really had all that many, did he? Just 'Mister Wolf' and 'under-cover' names. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-10-2003, 02:23 PM	#13
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	what books are u people talking about? __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

03-10-2003, 04:30 PM	#14
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	The Belgariad and the Malloreon, two five book series by David Eddings. Quite entertaining, indeed. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-12-2003, 03:09 PM	#16
Belle Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Essex! Posts: 72	Awww, Narnia, my dad read that to me when I was small, and I recently read them again. There was so much a didn't understand first time round, and now the parallel with the story of Jesus is so obvious. __________________ You made me that much stronger Made me work a little bit harder Made me that much wiser So thanks for making me a fighter Made me learn a little bit faster Made my skin a little bit thicker Made me that much smarter So thanks for making me a fighter

03-12-2003, 03:16 PM	#17
Blackboar Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!! Posts: 1,086	I often put strange names in my story, but I keep them short and simple, and they have a meaning, they are usually combined Old forgotten English words. But going through my stoy again, I think I might change some names.

03-13-2003, 09:13 AM	#18
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	"Fantasy" sounding names usually just tick me off. I think it's a good idea if there's some sort of system to it - for example, Orson Scott Wells in one of his books give all his characters Russian-sounding names, because they are the descendants of astronauts on a Russian spaceship who colonized another planet. This is cool because it makes sense and makes the names distinctive. But authors who just come up with random blubberish - well, that's lame. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-13-2003, 02:07 PM	#19
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Would you prefer elves named Jimmy and dwarves name Joe-Bob? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Moulin Rouge Fanclub	Lady of Darkness	Entertainment Forum	505	12-26-2004 09:44 PM
Baby Names	Arien the Maia	General Messages	59	07-08-2004 07:22 PM
The Conspiracies! (TOC vs. DC!)	Duddun	RPG Forum	321	01-22-2003 07:17 PM
names of pets afta LOTR charachters/creatures	congressmn	Lord of the Rings Books	1	01-19-2003 03:02 PM
Translations of names	Artanis	Lord of the Rings Books	13	08-28-2002 09:20 AM