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#1 |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Original Sin = Doom of Mandos
If you have read the Quenta Silmarillion, you will notice that when the Ñoldor reach the Wastes of Araman, Mandos appears before them and utters his doom on them. The Ñoldor that went to ME, had that Doom upon them and their children too.
Now going to chrystian myths, you will see the element of the Original Sin, all people born, are born with the Original Sin. I have to say that I think that it's wrong. The infants are in no way responsible for the actions of their elders and cannot be taken into that sin/doom. Where is the fairness in that?
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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#2 |
The Elven Queen Of All Pyros
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Im like a little bug stuck in the lamp...never going anywhere
Posts: 795
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we were just talking about that in history today. I think that infants should not have sinned already just because thousands of years ago, man ate the apple of wisdom
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Would you judge my future based on what i did in the past? Procrastinators Unite!!!.....tomorrrow.... Kids in backseats cause accidents...accidents in backseats cause kids As long as there are tests..there will be prayers in school |
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#3 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Hello, Maedhros. You know, there's a thread for this already. Go to the offshoot discussion.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 02-06-2003 at 07:52 PM. |
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#4 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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L_F_A, it's the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#5 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Re: Original Sin = Doom of Mandos
Quote:
Do you want your replies answered based on the general principle of the matter or specifically as Christian or Valarian relies?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 02-06-2003 at 07:55 PM. |
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#6 | |
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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Re: Re: Original Sin = Doom of Mandos
Quote:
![]() ![]() afro elf, you are such my favourite person.
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#7 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Alas! A
![]() I shall now join Daeron and sing songs of lament. ![]()
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 02-06-2003 at 09:00 PM. |
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#8 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Quote:
I know of some christians that feel that the original sin concept is wrong.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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#9 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Isn't that right? ![]()
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--Life is hard, and then we die. |
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#10 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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OK, you'd get the best answers from Rian, but if I am correct, then Adam and Eve were the best the race had to offer. If they failed, then anyone would fail. Also, let me point out that according to Christian belief, infants are not affected by sin, if by this you mean that they go to hell if they die. Only when you reach an age (different for different people) where you truly understand the message of Christianity are you held accountable, I believe.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#11 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa
Posts: 327
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Quote:
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The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. |
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#12 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: May 2002
Location: America!
Posts: 480
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you mean if a mother is addicted to crack and has a baby,the baby is gonna be addicted to crack?
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"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: 'it goes on'." ~robert frost |
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#13 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
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--Life is hard, and then we die. |
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#14 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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*/wonders how the doom of mandos could equate with original sin, when feanor and co had alread screwed up royally in order to get to the place they were.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#15 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
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#16 |
The Redneck Elf
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In a house
Posts: 539
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As far as I know, most Christians, myself included, beleive that humans are born into the nature of sin, not sin itself.
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Oliphants make great pets. Last edited by Elvellyn : 02-08-2003 at 07:21 PM. |
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#17 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Maedros I have battle on the religious threads here for a long time. I am going to keep out of this fray.
But, if you so desire check the archives and old post and you'll get my thoughts. I will just say that I am not a religious person and leave it at that.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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#18 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
She Alone Stands Between Thee and Thy Doom | Valandil | The Silmarillion | 8 | 03-24-2008 04:33 PM |
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