09-06-2006, 06:28 PM | #1 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 32
|
what about the vala?
i dont understand why they didnt just go right after morgoth after he got the silmarils and destroy him, HELL i dont know why they even let him out of prison in the first place. if you have answers please explain.
__________________
"But when wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf, and slew it with his hands and teeth" -Felagund, the greatest of the Noldo, and to walk Middle-Earth. |
09-07-2006, 02:21 AM | #2 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
To why they let him out of prision, that was because Manwe, not being evil himself, believed Morgoth truely had repented. But he had long gone down the path for not being able to repent. To yor first point, they didn't do anything because otherwise, they'd be messing with the plans of Eru, the One. Also because they didn't want another war with him, and distroy the world anymore then it already was.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
09-07-2006, 03:45 AM | #3 |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
Eru had some farked up plans then mate. Let all get buggered to a dismal wreck then watch as it all slowly sinks down hill, then later scrap it all and damn people to doom and despair?
Real shite for planning if ya ask me, I'd hate to work for that bugger.
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
09-07-2006, 10:41 AM | #4 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
There seems to be a strong underpinning of fate in the evolution of Arda, so one could argue that Eru simply planned it that way.
Also, remember that the Valar were more inhabitants of Arda than caretakers. They did some caretaking, but it never seemed to be their prime objective, so to speak. More often, they just did their own thing, much like the Norse and Greek gods of those respective mythologys. They were not christian-esk angels whose sole purpose was guiding and protecting the children of Eru. In many ways, I think that most of the Valar simply didn't want to deal with "the problem that was Melkor" until they were practically forced to take action.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
09-07-2006, 02:58 PM | #5 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
That's funny, cause Tolkien repeatedly calls the Maiar Angels, and the Valar Archangels...
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
09-07-2006, 03:48 PM | #6 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Quote:
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
|
09-07-2006, 04:46 PM | #7 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
They idea of the kind of non-interference directive you see by the time of LoTR worked out pretty well, but in the first age it is hard to reconcile the idea that 1) they claimed to not want to confront Melkor for fears of destruction to parts of Arda and 2) in the end, that's what they ended up doing anyway, destroying a large section of Arda.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
09-07-2006, 04:51 PM | #8 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
So are you saying that they had other, unexplained reasons for not wanting to confront Melkor earlier. Unless it was planned by the three songs they sang (see my last post).
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
09-07-2006, 06:11 PM | #9 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 32
|
Quote:
__________________
"But when wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf, and slew it with his hands and teeth" -Felagund, the greatest of the Noldo, and to walk Middle-Earth. |
|
09-08-2006, 10:26 AM | #10 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
Basically, they didn't confront him earlier because he was out of sight and out of mind, and they didn't really see it as their responsibility to put all the effort into taking him down. As far as fate goes. It's a matter of interpretation. But when I read the following part of Ainulindale, it seems pretty clear to me the Melkor's part was very much intended by Eru: Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
||
09-08-2006, 12:14 PM | #11 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Quote:
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
|
09-08-2006, 12:20 PM | #12 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
I agree. He created a being that was too much like himself, and wanted to create for himself just as his "father" did.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
09-08-2006, 12:21 PM | #13 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ekkaia the Outer Sea
Posts: 10
|
Lets not forget what a formidable foe Melkor posed setting on his throne in the depths Thangordrim. The Valar finally had to cracked open Beleraind just to get him out.
It was the Noldor who named Morgoth their enemy, to the Valar he exhibited something much different being one of their own. Only Tulkas "the Muscle of of Westerness" could take him down. Surely for the most part the Valar were just happy to be rid of him, as he was far far away. It does seem that they would take more interest in the Children of Iluvatar, after anticipating their arrival for so long. But the Valar were not shepards, more like elemental forces, the substance of Ea was theirs and of them but not the children. Each Valar had their own realm of governing, only a few (namely Mandos and Lorien) had any domain over men and elves, even then it was the realm of dreams and afterlife. Imagine the Valar as a group of 7 year olds building with legos and that brat Melkor keeps kicking them over. The kids get fed up and go outside to build sand castles. Meanwhile back inside Melkor starts picking on the toddlers that just got dropped off at the day care. Is it the other kids job to stop him? Where is the babysitter? "Iluvatar! Melkor's being bad again!" hehehe Last edited by Leviathan : 09-08-2006 at 01:06 PM. |
09-08-2006, 12:38 PM | #14 | ||||
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
||||
09-08-2006, 12:45 PM | #15 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
09-08-2006, 12:45 PM | #16 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ekkaia the Outer Sea
Posts: 10
|
Oops... I meant Melkor, I had Sauron on the brain and got ahead of myself typing. Didn't even realise it.
Wasn't Angband under Thangodrim? That's the way I alway took it. Like Angband was a city under Thangordrim. It doesn't really show on any maps that I know of, are the mountains are more like a fence?
__________________
Leviathan rising like a tower from the depths of Ekkaia, the far off outer sea, where the boats of men and elves will not venture. Of all the beast of Ea Leviathan is mightiest by far. As old as the sea itself, a servant of Ulmo, loyal to Osse. Beware the swell of the sea, beware the Leviathan Last edited by Leviathan : 09-08-2006 at 12:50 PM. |
09-08-2006, 12:53 PM | #17 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Yeah, they helped to protect him (not that he needed it).
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
09-08-2006, 12:58 PM | #18 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ekkaia the Outer Sea
Posts: 10
|
The wars of the Valar sound amazing, could you imagine the force these guys must put out in battle, destroying half a continent and all. Forget Superman and the Hulk, give me Melkor and Orome any day
__________________
Leviathan rising like a tower from the depths of Ekkaia, the far off outer sea, where the boats of men and elves will not venture. Of all the beast of Ea Leviathan is mightiest by far. As old as the sea itself, a servant of Ulmo, loyal to Osse. Beware the swell of the sea, beware the Leviathan |
09-08-2006, 01:04 PM | #19 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Somehow, i can't see Melkor wearing blue tights, and flying around saving people.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
09-08-2006, 01:18 PM | #20 | |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ekkaia the Outer Sea
Posts: 10
|
Quote:
It was never Morgoth that I thought the Valar needed to deal with, it was the trees. Why didn't the take the Silmarils and relight the trees? It was in their power and their right, after the breaking of Angband. The light of the Silmarils was not Feanor's to claim, nor that of his sons, despite all oaths. Once the trees were rekindled the Silmarils might be replaced and Melkor could be dealt with by the light of the trees. The Silmarils returned to the sons of Feanor, oath fulfilled. It was said that no other could claim them but why not loan them out so that the Valar can. . . I dunno. . . save the world from darkness?
__________________
Leviathan rising like a tower from the depths of Ekkaia, the far off outer sea, where the boats of men and elves will not venture. Of all the beast of Ea Leviathan is mightiest by far. As old as the sea itself, a servant of Ulmo, loyal to Osse. Beware the swell of the sea, beware the Leviathan |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
What is the silmarillion? | me9996 | The Silmarillion | 119 | 03-30-2005 06:41 PM |