Orcs and Goblins

The Wizard from Milan · 02-20-2005, 02:29 AM

In the LotR the evil minions are mainly Orcs, while in the Hobbits they are Goblins.
I am pretty sure Goblins are mentioned at least once in the LotR (but I would not remember where).
My question is: are Goblins and Orcs just a different name for the same thing? Or are they two different races? What do we know about the "genetic pool" of the two races? (i.e. does one descend from the other?)

Elemmírë · 02-20-2005, 02:39 AM

Ooo! You've a dog avvie! How many animal avvies do we have here now anyway?

I think they're the same thing. In the index of the Letters it says: Goblins, see Orcs...

Last Child of Ungoliant · 02-20-2005, 10:30 AM

i think it mentions in the hobbit something along the lines of the orcs being the big goblins of the mountains, but i could be wrong

Twista · 02-20-2005, 10:31 AM

Yes, they are the same thing essentially.

Goblins was sometimes the name given for the orcs that dwelled in the mountains..

Lefty Scaevola · 02-20-2005, 11:39 AM

Same thing; representations of different laguages. Orc (Orch) is representative of the Anduniac word, similar to the Sindarin word and Nandorin word (Yrch) and related to the Black Speech (which adopted some Sindarin forms) word (Uruk). Goblins (and in the hobbit, Hob-Goblins for large ones) seems to be representative of the hobbit word, possibly felated to the language of the Eorlingas. (of course, in this world, the reason is that JRRT used goblins in The Hobbit, and wanted a new word in LoTR)

The Gaffer · 02-21-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

possibly felated to the language of the Eorlingas

No wonder hobbits and men became sundered.

me9996 · 03-26-2005, 09:37 PM

Er.. They seem to be diffrent but JRR Tolken said they were the same...

Halbarad of the Dunedain · 04-01-2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

Same thing; representations of different laguages. Orc (Orch) is representative of the Anduniac word, similar to the Sindarin word and Nandorin word (Yrch) and related to the Black Speech (which adopted some Sindarin forms) word (Uruk). Goblins (and in the hobbit, Hob-Goblins for large ones) seems to be representative of the hobbit word, possibly felated to the language of the Eorlingas. (of course, in this world, the reason is that JRRT used goblins in The Hobbit, and wanted a new word in LoTR)

The language issue was indeed part of the misunderstanding of Orcs and Goblins. As most have already said, or inferd, Goblins is not a different race of Orc just a different type. The orcs that were of the mountains became known as Goblins as they became seperated from orcs, just as the men of Rohan and the men of Gondor. In the chapters that deal with Merry and Pippen on their journy to Fangorn we see that there are different dialects between orcs(and Goblins) which would suggest that they lived in different social regions.

me9996 · 04-01-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

The language issue was indeed part of the misunderstanding of Orcs and Goblins. As most have already said, or inferd, Goblins is not a different race of Orc just a different type. The orcs that were of the mountains became known as Goblins as they became seperated from orcs, just as the men of Rohan and the men of Gondor. In the chapters that deal with Merry and Pippen on their journy to Fangorn we see that there are different dialects between orcs(and Goblins) which would suggest that they lived in different social regions.

But... Oh well... If s/he thinks this I supose I can't make Halbarad think otherwise...

02-20-2005, 02:29 AM	#1
The Wizard from Milan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	Orcs and Goblins In the LotR the evil minions are mainly Orcs, while in the Hobbits they are Goblins. I am pretty sure Goblins are mentioned at least once in the LotR (but I would not remember where). My question is: are Goblins and Orcs just a different name for the same thing? Or are they two different races? What do we know about the "genetic pool" of the two races? (i.e. does one descend from the other?)

02-20-2005, 02:39 AM	#2
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	Ooo! You've a dog avvie! How many animal avvies do we have here now anyway? I think they're the same thing. In the index of the Letters it says: Goblins, see Orcs... __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

02-20-2005, 10:31 AM	#4
Twista Orodruin's Flame Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kananaskis, AB Posts: 1,194	Yes, they are the same thing essentially. Goblins was sometimes the name given for the orcs that dwelled in the mountains.. __________________ Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist.

02-20-2005, 11:39 AM	#5
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Same thing; representations of different laguages. Orc (Orch) is representative of the Anduniac word, similar to the Sindarin word and Nandorin word (Yrch) and related to the Black Speech (which adopted some Sindarin forms) word (Uruk). Goblins (and in the hobbit, Hob-Goblins for large ones) seems to be representative of the hobbit word, possibly felated to the language of the Eorlingas. (of course, in this world, the reason is that JRRT used goblins in The Hobbit, and wanted a new word in LoTR) __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 02-20-2005 at 11:41 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A couple unreleated questions...	Tig	Middle Earth	24	03-13-2007 12:55 PM
On the matter of orcs and goblins...	me9996	Middle Earth	5	01-03-2005 10:51 AM

02-20-2005, 10:30 AM	#3
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	i think it mentions in the hobbit something along the lines of the orcs being the big goblins of the mountains, but i could be wrong