Do you ever wish...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

that there weren't such controversial matters as the war in Iraq and such, which have such heated arguments, and sometimes elicit such open hostility? I often feel like it's basically the Entmoot Americans against the Entmoot Anti-Americans (including those who live in America), which is such a terrible shame; there are so many wonderful people on both sides, yet many people don't talk about much except the war, which causes me to feel almost blocked off from the wonderful people of the Entmoot. Does anyone else ever feel similar?

[Shadowfax]

Yes, it would be very nice if there weren't tough issues to 'argue' about, but I also think life would be too easy if there was no controversy, and we wouldn't be able to appreciate the many good things about life. I also think that for there to be no controversial issues, people would have to have no opinions or something, which would also be a shame because there'd be no diversity. So basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is that sure it would be great if everything was smooth sailing, but life wouldn't be as rich or have as much depth as it does when people can speak their minds about multi-faceted topics.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
that there weren't such controversial matters as the war in Iraq and such, which have such heated arguments, and sometimes elicit such open hostility? I often feel like it's basically the Entmoot Americans against the Entmoot Anti-Americans (including those who live in America), which is such a terrible shame; there are so many wonderful people on both sides, yet many people don't talk about much except the war, which causes me to feel almost blocked off from the wonderful people of the Entmoot. Does anyone else ever feel similar?

Yeah, it does sometimes feel like that, but that is only in specific threads......I've never seen those feelings spread to other convo's.....I've lost a few good internet friends 'cos of all the Anti-American/Pro-American words said.........but that's the way it goes.......war brings about a lot of strong feelings

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes, but all too many people post little except in those specific threads.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Yes, but all too many people post little except in those specific threads.

Yeah, a lot of people do have their favourite discussions. (just post everywhere).

There are also people who post primarily in the Sil threads that I don't think I've ever posted with.

We'll have to start some threads to tease them out

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Yes, but all too many people post little except in those specific threads.

I used to post in the other forums. Of course - I mostly argued with how I hated FotR in the movie forum. That was before TT came out and everyone seemed to think Jackson was god - so I was sort of on my own there.

I don't carry my arguments onto other threads though. I can disagree with someone very heavily in the Iraq thead and agree with them in other threads. Just because I disagree with a person's opinions doesn't mean I don't like the person or personlize my disagreements.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
that there weren't such controversial matters as the war in Iraq and such, which have such heated arguments, and sometimes elicit such open hostility? I often feel like it's basically the Entmoot Americans against the Entmoot Anti-Americans (including those who live in America), which is such a terrible shame; there are so many wonderful people on both sides, yet many people don't talk about much except the war, which causes me to feel almost blocked off from the wonderful people of the Entmoot. Does anyone else ever feel similar?

You know what I wish? That people would stop using the term Anti-American for anyone who happens to disagree with some of the views expressed in these threads. Just because those opinions are voiced by Americans doesn't automatically mean that anyone who disagrees is anti-American.

If I am anti-anything it would be anti-stupidity (deadliest thing in the world as I told you before).

I have previously voiced my opinion about the number of Iraq / War threads so I shall refrain from doing so again - never let it be said that I repeat myself, repeat myself, myself, myself

Yes, but all too many people post little except in those specific threads.

Can't say I do that (not really anyway), but I limit my posts to the threads & people I find interesting. I see no point of posting in threads where I would only be limiting myself to one-liners in order to push my 'post total' up. Besides, notorious spammer that I am I don't want to defile the entire 'moot, so I just stick to the pansy threads But I do enjoy reading the other threads as well, make no mistake.

BTW Gwaim - how was the birthday?

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Baby-K
You know what I wish? That people would stop using the term Anti-American for anyone who happens to disagree with some of the views expressed in these threads. Just because those opinions are voiced by Americans doesn't automatically mean that anyone who disagrees is anti-American.

There was a peace rally today in America in which a bunch of people were holding signs saying simultaneously that they supported the troops but were against war. None of us are saying that these people are anti-American, or that everyone is. However, there are people who are anti-American. People being anti-American generally means that they stereotype or throw into one group the American population, culture, society and government policy. There are a lot of Arabs that are doing that, and in England and France some people are doing that also.

However, we're not saying that all people against this government action are anti-American.

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I used to post in the other forums. Of course - I mostly argued with how I hated FotR in the movie forum. That was before TT came out and everyone seemed to think Jackson was god - so I was sort of on my own there.

Hmm, interesting. I came home from watching and loving TTT and got onto Entmoot after I'd digested what I'd seen in my own mind. I went into the LoTR forum and saw large amounts of skeptical posts disecting the movie and giving disapproving or condescending opinions of it. I literally began to feel rather sick and had to lie down for a few minutes. After that I've barely gone to that forum since.

We both seem to have been turned off by the opposite things; isn't that strange?

Originally posted by Coney
Yeah, it does sometimes feel like that, but that is only in specific threads......I've never seen those feelings spread to other convo's.....I've lost a few good internet friends 'cos of all the Anti-American/Pro-American words said.........but that's the way it goes.......war brings about a lot of strong feelings

That's too bad. I haven't had that problem, because I didn't tend to know most of the people very well before getting into the Iraq debates. My primary connection to everyone had been through the evolution religion thread, in which nearly everyone was against me, so actually it was more of a pleasant change . So I've lost no friends there, and I think I've been pretty lucky in not making any enemies.


I actually just enjoy a lot of those politics threads. The evolution thread, the predestination thread and the Iraq thread have all been helpful to me in terms of increasing my awareness and causing me to try to learn more outside of Entmoot on these subjects. The controversy is good for me.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

You know what I wish? That people would stop using the term Anti-American for anyone who happens to disagree with some of the views expressed in these threads.

Nononono, I'm not doing that at all. I know that you are against the war, as well as numerous other 'Mooters, but I would never consider you to be anti-American (unless you stated that America was the worst thing ever, or something similar without a joking smilie following, of course )!

[Baby-K]

There was a peace rally today in America in which a bunch of people were holding signs saying simultaneously that they supported the troops but were against war. None of us are saying that these people are anti-American, or that everyone is. However, there are people who are anti-American. People being anti-American generally means that they stereotype or throw into one group the American population, culture, society and government policy. There are a lot of Arabs that are doing that, and in England and France some people are doing that also.

Similarly many of the opinions voiced by the so-called 'pro-Americans' could be viewed as anti-Muslim. And I was referring to the Entmoot scenario specifically and the posts in the threads here, not war protestors in the streets. It has been mentioned / alluded to in numerous Iraq / War threads that some of us are anti-American in our opinions, implying that we 'hate' Americans & all things American based on our opposition to the War & the policies surrounding it. This is simply not true - I don't hate Americans - I hate this war which happens to be fought by US & Brittish forces mainly (if I hated Americans I'd have to hate the Brits too - pretty daft assumption that).

I hate the propaganda on both sides, the mud slinging, the numerous deaths, the sadness, the media coverage that has managed to turn one of the saddest moments of our times into a 'rating' game (i.e the way the media turns disturbing events such as this war into soap operas). Most of all I hate the idea that people believe there is no alternative because it goes against my personal beliefs that 'there simply must be a better way' - write it off to my eternal optimism if you like. But I do not hate Americans.

I have no interest in visiting America, but this is largely due to the bombardment of visual images by the media (movies etc) - sorta left meft me with the feeling of 'I don't have to go there to see what it's about, I can just get the movie'. I know it's biased, but that still does not mean I hate your country, it simply means that there are other countries I'd like to visit more.

What I'm getting at *collective sigh of relief heard* is that I do not have to agree with American views etc to respect them, but I expect the same courtesy of being afforded my own opinion without being labelled anti-American for voicing them.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Baby-K
'there simply must be a better way'

What I'm getting at *collective sigh of relief heard* is that I do not have to agree with American views etc to respect them, but I expect the same courtesy of being afforded my own opinion without being labelled anti-American for voicing them.

1. And what better way would you suggest? How do you think we can make Saddam listen?

2. See previous post.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Baby-K
What I'm getting at *collective sigh of relief heard* is that I do not have to agree with American views etc to respect them, but I expect the same courtesy of being afforded my own opinion without being labelled anti-American for voicing them.

You're basically saying the same thing as I was.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
1. And what better way would you suggest? How do you think we can make Saddam listen?

2. See previous post.

Hello Gwaimy

I don't know, perhaps getting Saddam only out of the country & putting him on trial before the World Court for crimes against humanity? In stead of an all out war where thousands of people stand to lose their lives. How do you rebuild a country with no people to do the jobs? Or when only the disillusioned are left?

(and don't anyone dare refer to the loss of civillian lives as 'collateral damage' - there is nothing 'collateral' about a human life, the value of which could never be estimated IMO)

Or how about letting the UN continue their inspections etc until such time that an unanimous decision could be reached that war would be the only solution?

As for the previous post - I saw it & need to clear up that I wasn't implying that you were one of the culprits. I just picked up on the phrase because it has been used so widely lately.

The only thing wrong with America is that it's not South Africa (same thing goes for any country that's not mine )

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
You're basically saying the same thing as I was.

I know, but I need to be difficult I'm allowed to - I'm me

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Baby-K
You know what I wish? That people would stop using the term Anti-American for anyone who happens to disagree with some of the views expressed in these threads. Just because those opinions are voiced by Americans doesn't automatically mean that anyone who disagrees is anti-American.

You're new - you don't know what the past threads were like. The blatant anti-Americanism has calmed down - but it does not change the fact of what people said in the past on the old threads.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
You're new - you don't know what the past threads were like. The blatant anti-Americanism has calmed down - but it does not change the fact of what people said in the past on the old threads.

yeah well you can't keep living in the past - let it go & get on with yer life. Those threads aren't here anymore so I resent being labelled along with people I didn't know or supported.

[Dúnedain]

Well see the great thing about it though, GW, is that it is debate at its finest (most of the time anyway ) and it is just something inherent in the human nature. I mean, the majority of us might go toe to toe in these threads with debate, but then in other threads we don't. Yes, some people might not ever get along, but the beauty of it is that we can debate civilly in one thread and then talk about something else in another thread like nothing ever happened...

[Lief Erikson]

Baby-K, Jerseydevil is pointing out that there has been anti-Americanism here in the past, so it's fair in some cases to believe that people are anti-American. I've encountered people who have thrown Americans into the same boat also and been simply against America, rather than against the government of America, or against this policy of America, or against this war. There are people like that, but as you have said you aren't one of them, I believe you. I don't believe, and I think Jerseydevil also don't believe that you're anti-American. What led you to believe you were being labeled anti-American?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Baby-K
yeah well you can't keep living in the past - let it go & get on with yer life.

Why does it bug you that much? You weren't here - so I don't think you should be judging what I should forget or not forget. Just be concerned with what is said to you.

Those threads aren't here anymore so I resent being labelled along with people I didn't know or supported.

Well I'm not labeling you and I dont recall ever calling you anti-American. I don't care whether you're against the war or not. That isn't what makes someone anti-American.

[Falagar]

This is the reason why I seldom participate in religion or political debates.
People can live with how you look, but not always with your opinions.