06-04-2006, 04:09 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
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Why Galadriel left Valinor?
According to Tolkien, Galadriel had her own plans for Endor long before the revolt of Feanor. And, seems, her plans were very well accepted and approved by Valar.
"She did indeed wish to depart from Valinor and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents; for "being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar," and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman. This desire of Galadriel's was, it seems, known to Manwё, and he had not forbidden her; but nor had she been given formal leave to depart. " ("UT") So, the desire "to rule there a realm at her own will" (The Sillmarillion) was only her private reason. What reason she gave to Valar to be singled out to leave Valinor with their blessing? Your thoughts? |
06-04-2006, 04:16 PM | #2 | |
Elven Warrior
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06-04-2006, 04:24 PM | #3 |
Dreamweaver
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this should be in the sil thread...but, alas and alack, i am no mod...
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06-04-2006, 04:35 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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The Valar indeed hasn't formally given Galadriel permission to leave.. but it seems they would've, if not for the darkening of Valinor. ("...would undoubtedly have been withheld in that hour, however legitimate her desire in itself.") So the question still stands IMO - just replace the "gave" by "would give".
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06-04-2006, 06:06 PM | #5 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Wasn't there a later version where Galadriel and her "Teleporno" , now a Telerin Elf, sailed to ME separately from the Feanoreans, and, undoubtedly WITH the blessing of the Valar?
Tolkien so wished to make Galadriel a saint! |
06-04-2006, 07:46 PM | #6 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Interesting question Olmer.
I would guess that the answer is essentially in the quote you gave. Quote:
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06-05-2006, 01:02 AM | #7 | ||
Elf Lord
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She "fought heroically"against Noldor and then she sailed away without a permission ,because was so horrified by cruelty of Feanor,( and probably, of her own, after all she TOOK PART in kinslaying, and by this fact, with all his hard trying Tolkien did not manage to make her "whiter and fluffier" ). Last edited by Olmer : 07-03-2006 at 12:35 PM. |
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06-12-2006, 09:21 AM | #8 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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i think it's also the fact that she's curious, and if you heard of a new land from half-uncle Feanor, wouldn't you want to go and visit, regardless of whether the Valar want you to go or not. after all, you've got a husband who can get you a boat easily...
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06-12-2006, 10:35 PM | #9 | ||
Elf Lord
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She is one of the brightest elves, capable to read everybody's mind, even Sauron's, builds up a little unique kingdom in close proximity of Sauron's realm and stays over there millenium after millenium, even refusing the pardon of Valar. What was holding her? Definately, not her provincial husband, whom she dumped as soon, as she got the chance. Why her mellorns all of the sudden have died when she left Lorien? According to the described size, can you imagine the root system of such trees, considering that the roots of the trees resembles an underwater part of iceberg, going deep and wide? And all of them died at once? What was going on in Golden Woods? |
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06-13-2006, 01:49 AM | #10 | ||
Elven Warrior
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The wide unguarded lands may simply mean virgin teritory, i.e. that she wanted to become a pioneer. |
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06-13-2006, 03:23 AM | #11 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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interesting... as a noun, pioneer means a) a person or group that is the first to do something or that is a forerunner in creating or developing something new.
b) somebody who goes into previously uncharted or unclaimed territory with the aim of exploring it and possibly colonizing it or settling there c) army* a foot soldier whose duties include going ahead of the main company to pave the way for them by building roads, ditches, bridges, and other constructions d) ecology* the first species of plant or animal life to begin living in a previously unoccupied site, for example a moss beginning to grow on otherwise bare rock as a verb, it means a) transitive verb to experiment with or develop something new b) transitive verb to go into previously uncharted or unclaimed territory with the aim of exploring it and possibly colonizing it or settling there c) intransitive verb to act as a pioneer in a specified field. Can any of these apply to Galadriel?
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06-13-2006, 11:18 AM | #12 | ||||||
Elven Warrior
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Well, she wanted lands of her own, to rule by herself; there are only so many ways to get them: for others already living there to surrender to her; she conquers already existing realms; she rules new territories. Though it is a matter of speculation, I don't think she set out to conquer lands by force, nor do I picture her as expecting others to bow at her feet; therefore I presume what she had in mind was new lands.
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06-13-2006, 11:37 AM | #13 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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06-13-2006, 12:28 PM | #14 |
Elven Warrior
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Most likely her ring, my son .
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06-13-2006, 12:42 PM | #15 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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why, my mum/dad?
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06-13-2006, 01:01 PM | #16 | |
Elven Warrior
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Well, she strikes me as someone more gifted/intersted in martial matters, might, high-level politics; and of the rings themselves, it is stated in letter #131:
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06-13-2006, 05:42 PM | #17 | |||
Salt Miner
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To follow upon one Landroval’s earlier posts:
The reasons why Galadriel left Valinor for Middle-earth changed in the telling. In the early stories, she left in the fury which drove the rest of the Noldor; later, she left for lands to rule on her own; and finally, she left with her lover Teleporno, later called Celeborn, having originally received permission from the Valar which was rescinded during the rebellion of the Fëanor and the Noldor. At the beginning of the chapter “The History of Galadriel and Celeborn” in Unfinished Tales, Christopher Tolkien wrote, Quote:
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I cannot sat what concept was in Tolkien’s mind when he wrote Lord of the Rings, but clearly not that Galadriel and Teleporno/Celeborn had permission to leave Valinor until Fëanor rebelled: this was a concept formed late in Tolkien’s life, according to his son Christopher. Nor was Amroth the son of Galadriel and Celeborn at that time; this also emerged later. That Galadriel was a “leading figure” (my phrase, not Tolkien’s)in the rebellion of the Noldor, however, was an idea that was apparently in Tolkien’s mind at the time he wrote Lord of the Rings, and was still his view in 1967, when he wrote a draft to ‘Mr Rang’ in August 1967, Letter 297, near the end: Quote:
My own opinion is that as Tolkien got older, he tried to tidy up the messy history of Galadriel, much perhaps as Galadriel would have liked to have tidied it were she able. That she left Valinor with the general rebellion of the Noldor was clearly his conception of matters until the final years of his life, and was undoubtedly his notion when he wrote the Lord of the Rings; as was the concept that Celeborn was a Sindarin elf of Middle-earth, whether always east of the mountains (which may have been Tolkien’s intention when he wrote the “Lothlórien” chapter of Fellowship of the Ring) or a kinsman of Thingol’s dwelling in Doriath. In any event, until the late-life drafts of Galadriel and Teleporno sneaking out of Valinor in the general confusion following the flight of the Noldor, Tolkien clearly had in mind that Galadriel was not only the greatest of both the Noldor and the Eldar still alive in Middle-earth, she was also an Exile and banned from returning to the West not because of her participation in the rebellion of the Noldor, but because of her role as a leader of the rebellion. |
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06-13-2006, 05:56 PM | #18 |
Elven Warrior
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Olmer, after reading your last post, I thought that I knew what you were hinting at. Now, I am not so sure. Anyway, I’ll post what I came up with. Hopefully you will tell me how close I came.
You have suggested before that Galadriel was the chief “Western” person in Middle Earth in the Third Age (being the one who called the White Council). So, she was going to Middle Earth as Manwe’s representative. Perhaps she was to replace Melian (with whom she shares many similarities) in this role, since Melian had allowed Thingol to possess the greater authority. You mentioned Galadriel’s marriage to Celeborn. Maybe this was done only to give her authority over the Telerian Elves who had never heeded the Valar’s call, and so, wouldn’t be expected to follow their representative (like Melian’s marriage, maybe). And the Mallorn trees. Maybe they were “nurtured” by the Valar/Yavanna to make the statement, to those who could read it, that: here is a piece of Valinor in Middle Earth, and it’s leader represents the Valar. When Galadriel left, the trees were no longer needed, and their angelic aid was removed. Well, that didn’t cover the fact that other great Noldor also came to Middle Earth, but that’s the best I could come up with for now. How did I do Olmer? |
06-15-2006, 02:19 AM | #19 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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What, then, was Valar's real reason to invite Quendi to the institution of the close up type? And explanation that they "desired their fellowship" is quite lame. The same way I would put dog on the chain and say that I'm restricting its movements, because I'm desiring a friendship. What kind of "paradise" has been Valinor, if such horrid creatures, as Ungoliant, was dwelling on the so called blessed land? Quote:
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Gil-Galad in his Lindon did not manage to grow even single mellorn, even , as I think, he did not have difficulies to obtain the tree's seeds from Tol Eressea. Quote:
I think, that while creating the history of Middle-earth, history, based on on the world's long existing information, borrowed by Tolkien from catholic's religion concepts, traditions of english literature and epos of North Europe, he has been , in the effect , co-writing with the Creator. His work is similar to the music of Ainur, which was just an expansion of the theme, given by Eru. Later, when Tolkien -the writer had been substituted by Tolkien-the analyzer , to his surprise he discovered that, if you wil have ”largely impersonal view “ on his creations, you can give a different interpretations of some events, and sometimes this interpretations aren't looking the way he intended to. This why he did a “colossal” work of rewriting, but since originally it was not his sole invention , inevitably another inconsistencies would poke out after his corrections. I agree with your opinion that for canon should be accepted the basic versions, and not the one which was revised, but also it couldn't be totally discarded, because of the additional information. Quote:
Last edited by Olmer : 06-15-2006 at 10:06 AM. |
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06-15-2006, 10:19 AM | #20 | |
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