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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 69
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The Protests- what's your opinion?
I know that this could be an emotional topic (at least it is in my High School)
But I wanted to know what people's opinions of the student walkouts yesterday, and war in general, even were. And of course, I'll just say this as a disclaimer, not that it'll be needed- everybody, keep it civil. Well have at it guys! -DoE |
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#2 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Go first amendment. If Bush is smart he'll make this point constantly: Hey see what is allowed in a democratic country? couldnt happen in Iraq. Etc.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 69
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so what's your opinion of all of the students yesterday who walked out of classes and stuff during school to protest War in Iraq?
-DoE |
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#4 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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uh well I had no problem with it. If they truly believe it then its a good way to express yourself I guess. They just better be willing to pay the price of a possible suspension for their beliefs. The only thing that bothers me is that you know so many kids just used it as an opportunity to skip school for a day and could care less about Iraq or world peace or anything beyond their little worlds.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 69
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true in some cases I suppose- But I know at our walkout, we had about alittle under a quarter of the school who risked it even with all of the threats- and we were all there for reasons other than getting out of class- actually, very few of us wanted to leave our classes- we only did it because we belived in our causes- either Pro-war or Anti-War
-DoE |
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#6 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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If it gets young people interested in politics, it's a good thing.
Not that I agree with them, however.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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#7 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#8 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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I know at York University anyways the "pro-peace" protests were highly anti-Israel-enough so that they dengenerated into overt anti-Semitism. It's my largest problem with the current "peace" movement-it's a thin line between being pro-peace and condoning terrorism and tyranny. Actually it's also the reason I can't support parties of the left (somethings Americans, I suppose, don't really need to worry about).
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
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#9 |
Corruptor
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jozi SA
Posts: 1,885
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I do not support the war on Iraq. What was at first a war on Terrorism caused by the events of 9/11 seems to have shifted focus - from a need of a country to find solace in bringing the man / people who did those terrible deeds to justice, to a one man show of a president wanting a war against another country for financial gain (that's my opinion anyway, no matter how it is sugar coated to say that it's in the interest of the free world).
It's interesting that the students in the US have staged a peaceful protest by way of a walk out, I would certainly support such a thing, however (in agreement with Markedel) I would be very careful of that "thin line". The world has changed to such a degree that it seems we are basing our views of right and wrong on the events in the Middle East and though these events are historically important surely they cannot be the only measures? It has become so prolific that any pro-peace sentiments can (to some extent) be interpreted either Anti-Semite or Anti-Muslim. OK that's my tupence worth, just an aside - are there not enough "Iraq" threads already & shouldn't they rather be grouped as one?
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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#10 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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waco's, crazies and freeks
That's who's protesting. Those who really care about peace are drowned out and invisible to the media. All one sees are re-hashed signs from the 60's movements and signs for every cause from anti Semitism, to abortion, to gay rights etc. There's no unifying message and the students are just using the excuse of protesting for peace to further their individual and collective adgendas. For a peace march scene, look back to The Revered Martin Luther King. He knew how to have a peace march.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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#11 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 69
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Quote:
not a mixed message, but yes, two very different ones. and I'm from upstate New York -DoE |
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#12 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#13 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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I don't like "pro-war" title. NO ONE is pro-war. It's just that we, the people who support military action against Iraq, want Iraq once and for all to disarm. I personally want him removed from power. Nothing will change in Iraq - even if he does disarm now. He'll turn around and start rebuilding as soon as inspectors leave.
There have been plenty of "Pro-Action" rallies. I don't really care if the students walked out of classes - just as long as they had permission from their parents and the school. Who would be liable if the marches turned violent and people got hurt? I have a feeling parents would be suing schools for allowing their children to leave school grounds without permission. Also - most of the students who I saw marching just looked like it was a fun time, as if all they wanted to do was get out of classes. One thing that bothers me about all the peace marches - no one speaks out against the attrocities of the Iraqi government. Hussein takes wives and sisters of prisoners to the jails, where the guards rape them in front of their jailed husbands and brothers. He is a brutal dictator yet - the so called peace marchers have Nazi symbols painted on the American Flag or call Bush Satan. Demonstrate against the real attrocities and march to demand that Iraqi disarm and give up all his weapons. One thing I think is really wrong is the arrest of that guy who was wearing a "Peace" shirt in the mall in New York. They argue that the mall is private property and the mall requested that he leave and refused to. I am torn though - because I know if you wear certain things to a mall or amusement park - like a shirt which has cursing on it or is too revealing - they'll make you leave. So what do people think about the mal asking that guy to leave? On one had he was expressioning his beliefs, but on the other it was the mall's property and he might have caused an uproar. I just don't think that shirt went over the line though. By the way - have people heard that the Human Shields are leaving Iraq now. It seems being there opened up their eyes a little bit to what Hussein is like. They thought they'd be protecting Hospitals, Schools and the general population. Instead Hussein was having them stand around military installations and oil refineries and other places. He wanted them to guard his assests - not his people. There is also reports that Hussein is buying US and Bristish uniforms (or knockoffs). It's felt he's going to try using his military dressed up in OUR uniforms to kill his own people so it looks like we did it. Hussein is a tyrant who must be removed - before he develops Iraq into the North Korea of the Middle East.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-07-2003 at 02:49 PM. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 69
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I would truly like to beleive that no one is really for war- actually wanting it, instead of just accepting it as the inevitable or what have you. But I find that impossible when staring at of of the large PRO-WAR signs that the little group of war supporters had.
on another note, I'm just curous- what college did you go to, Insidious Rex? -DoE |
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#15 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#16 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
The anti-war crowd carry numerous US flags painted with Nazi symbols and other anti-American stuff. Yet we're not supposed to think that the so called peace demonstrators are anti-american. I still find it ironic that these so called peace demonstrators carry no signs denouncing the evils that Hussein does or carry signs demanding that Iraq 100% comply with UN inspections.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#17 |
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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I believe that we have to get rid of Hussein. that's a fact.
But, who else could come to power? His brother is one hundred times worse than he is. I am all for disarmament and the like, but think about where some of the anti-American Iraqis are coming from.. would you want to have some other country have guards in yours to "keep the peace?" I wouldn't. In fact, it would make me angry. I do believe that i might categorise those feelings into "hate" after a while as well. I believe that at this point, the only peaceful soloution is to draw out completely from Iraq. But, of course we can't do that. Bushy needs his oil, precious. I know that's not the only reason, so don't try and call me on that. i just think that it's one of the biggies. another reason i do not support the use of force is the simple fact that i have neither seen nor heard any solid... well, anything to fight a war over. i have heard reasons, yes... but have i seen the evidence? no. All this talk of a "smoking gun".. they have yet to find it. i know that it is more than likely that hussein is hiding weapons. in fact i believe that he is hiding something, but i still need proof to make my 98% a 100% also, i think that the US controls enough as it is. We have problems here too, lets spend our money on our domestic problems before investing in a war. i know that the country will never be free of rascism (sp?) or robberies, or murders etc, but we could help out a little more in dept's like those, before we go trying to solve other countries problems. other than that, the next soloution is to make a large radioactive hole in the ground where the entire middle east is.... ![]()
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#18 | |||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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By the way - the amount of money the US will get from the oil will not pay for the war - especially if Hussein ends up blowing up the wells. So I don't buy the "Bushy needs his oil" argument. It's more that the US ends to bring about change in the Middle East in order to prevent terrorism. Until the governments in that region change - terrorism will not go away. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-07-2003 at 07:56 PM. |
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#19 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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The Protest thread has become The Iraq thread....
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__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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#20 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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I'm not denying that oil is a factor in the Middle East dealings. But I don't think it is as much of a factor as the anti-war people want to make it out to be. We could have had the oil after the first Gulf War if we wanted. Everyone claims the US pushes it's weight around - really - who was going to stop us if we just went on into to Iraq? Do you REALLY think the coalition would have turned their guns on us? I doubt it. Also the world is going to be watching how we conduct ourselves here. I think the oil will be used to rebuild Iraq. Once fighting starts I'm sure France and Russia and Germany will come around with there hands out for a piece of Iraqi oil deals. I really do like how America is after all this oil - yet the only reason why France and Russia are against the war is BECAUSE of their oil deals. I guess oil for the blood of Iraqi citizens is okay though. ![]() Remeber also - France and Russia didn't even support the initial inspection of Iraq after the Gulf War. I would question more of what those two countries are afraid of. How many illegal items are going to be found with the stamp - "Made in France" or Made in Russia" Not to mention the "Made in Germany" items.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-07-2003 at 09:00 PM. |
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