12-19-2004, 09:35 PM | #1 |
Sapling
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Dwarves: The True Hero's of Tolkien's Works?
It is my belief that, if it were not for the Dwarves, the Enemy would have taken The Ring. If Gandalf Had not gone in search of Thorin's father, in the tower of the Necromancer, he would not have not realized that he, the Necromancer was indeed Sauron himself, and Sauron would have been able locate the Ring, and take it.
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12-20-2004, 12:43 AM | #2 |
The Insufferable
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If not for the Dwarves, the Enemy would have indeed conquered Middle Earth.
If not for the Elves, Melkor would have undisputed dominion over the lands beyond Valinor. If not for Men, the Enemy would have destroyed both the elves and the dwarves, and taken full control of the world. If not for Hobbits, Sauron would have conquered, and the world would be a much gloomier place. I won't go so far as to say that, if not for Orcs, Morgoth and Sauron would have been in a better position. But it's an interesting thought.
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12-20-2004, 12:06 PM | #3 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Gandalf did not go into Dol Guldur looking for Thrain. The fact that he found him there was meerly a coincidence. He went in to find out who the Necromancer was and to explore his dwelling.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-20-2004, 02:24 PM | #4 | |
avocatus diaboli
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Quote:
Wayfarer's got a point... everyone was important, none more or less so than anyone else.
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12-20-2004, 02:35 PM | #5 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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I wouldn't say that they were the most loyal servants because I'd say that hobbits were, but I also agree with Wayfarer.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
12-20-2004, 03:35 PM | #6 |
the Shrike
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Oh how boring... everyone's agreeing with the insufferable twit.
How about this: it was all pre-ordained in Ilúvatar's music.... so does that make HIM the True Hero?
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12-20-2004, 03:49 PM | #7 |
avocatus diaboli
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Or the true villain...
*grumbles*
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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12-20-2004, 04:01 PM | #8 |
The Insufferable
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I thought he was just the director of the film.
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12-28-2004, 10:01 PM | #9 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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The Quest to reclaim the mountain provided the perfect catalyst for Bilbo to find the Ring, but don't forget that Bilbo wouldn't have been included at all if not for Gandalf. He really pushed Thorin to include him. He basically made him take Bilbo (who proved his worth many times over, even without the Ring).
Is Gandalf then, the true hero of the Hobbit? He is not, because aside from blowing up the odd orc, he doesn't have to do anything. He does not have to overcome personal struggle, as Bilbo does. Bilbo is the main hero of the Hobbit, though Thorin does have a personal struggle as well. I don't think Thorin's struggles make all Dwarves the hero though.
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03-20-2005, 01:21 PM | #10 | |
Ring-smith
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They have their own heroism...
But so does evryone else.
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06-08-2005, 09:20 PM | #11 |
Dreamweaver
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i think that there is no "true hero", i do agree with the "insufferable twit" wayfarer, everyone together did it.
the dwarves quest, gandalf makes them bring bilbo and saves there hides a few times, bilbo find the ring, frodo destroys it, sam does the sevent bit and help frodo to his last bit of consciousness, and then gandalf comes again, the eagles heroes as well, saving frodo and the dwarves. . . .
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
06-09-2005, 11:14 AM | #12 | |
Elf Lord
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01-13-2006, 07:40 AM | #13 |
Hobbit
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Dwarves, ha. They're brave, sturdy, battle savvy... But heroes? I think not. Sure there are heroes among their numbers, but judged as a whole they are just an embodiment of greed and gluttony. They'd count their gold as Men and Elves counted their casualties. Hide and count, yup, 'til someone starts lookin' over their shoulder... Then it's war.
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"What funny little birds, they have no wings. Oh, what shall we do with these funny little things?!" -Singing Warg Riders In "The Hobbit" Animated Movie. |
01-13-2006, 08:12 AM | #14 |
Elf Lord
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Let's hear it for Thrushes
Without whom Smaug would have inherited The Ring, along with a nice hors d'oeuvre of toasted hobbit.
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01-13-2006, 09:36 PM | #15 |
Hobbit
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I didn't say they were useless, simply not the most important of heroes in LoTR. Smaug would not have attained the ring either way, Bilbo would have stayed home had the Dwarves not needed him... Gollum would still have the ring. And the Dwarves had not real contact with Smaug, Bilbo would still have survived... And anyways the whole adventure was over treasure. As I mentioned, and the Dwarves were ready to fight Elves and Men for it... Rather than share.
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"What funny little birds, they have no wings. Oh, what shall we do with these funny little things?!" -Singing Warg Riders In "The Hobbit" Animated Movie. |
01-17-2006, 12:40 AM | #16 | |
Elf Lord
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03-02-2006, 10:27 PM | #17 |
Elven Warrior
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To the Respectable Wayfarer
Ya Know, it does seem like it would have all worked out that way. Everything would have gone wrong if certain people were not where they were doing what they were doing at a certain time and place. So... Maybe you have to think of Tolkien as a sort of "Higher Power" who positioned everyone where they needed to be so that Life on Middle-Earth goes on as it should, with many losses as well as victories. The Orcs were supposed to be mindless muscle and the Elves and the Dwarves and the Men and anyone else that you can think of was supposed to be there. So, now it seems that they are all the heroes and arguing over it becomes as mindless as the Orcs themselves, doesn't it?
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Maturing Teenager With Lots of Voice I'VE GOT A LOVELY BUNCH OF COCONUTS, THERE THEY ARE ALL STANDING IN A ROW. BIG ONES, SMALL ONES, SOME AS BIG AS YOUR HEAD, GIVE THEM A TWIST, A FLICK OF THE WRIST, THAT'S WHAT THE SHOWMAN SAID. ROLL-A-BOWL-A-BALL, A PENNY A PITCH. ROLL-A-BOWL-A-BALL, A PENNY A PITCH. ROLL-A-BOWL-A-BALL, ROLL-A-BOWL-A-BALL, SINGING ROLL-A-BOWL-A-BALL, A PENNY A PITCH! Last edited by ElvenLover : 03-02-2006 at 10:33 PM. |
08-04-2009, 01:04 PM | #18 | |
Hobbit
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I dont see how they can't be seen as heroes. They deserve more praise than the elves , the half-faery twits. j/k/ but I dont think elves should be lifted up as much as they are. They seem quite snobby and have their noses in the air too much , so to speak.
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09-27-2009, 05:42 PM | #19 |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12
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Im going to have to also respectrully disagree with alot of you. and say that its all the elves fault. They shouldnt of made those rings anyways. As for the hobbits they are way overrated and are really useless because gimli could of carried the ring b/c they (the dwarves) have a resistance to that sort of thing. And gimli could of easily taken it and destroyed it since he is unnaffected by the ring. Also keep in mind that Frodo would of been dead if not for the mithril that the dwarves made. The only thing the dwarves couldnt resist was the arkenstone and gold.
Thus if the elves hadnt made all those rings there wouldnt of been a problem. Also keep in mind that if the elves hadnt made all those rings the witch King wouldnt of been there and thus the hobbits were not needed Thus you can remove the elves because they helped caused the problem And the hobbits were really worthless.. gimli could of done it. So the true heroes are the dwarves and men b/c you cannot do w/o them. Last edited by TurinTurambar : 09-27-2009 at 06:03 PM. |
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