Frodo's Dream

Celebriel · 02-28-2003, 05:05 PM

Chapter 5 of the FOTR (A Conspiracy Unmasked) ends with a dream of Frodo. Here it is...

Quote:

"Eventually he fell into a vague dream, in which he seemed to be looking out of a high window over a dark sea of tangled trees. Down below among the roots there was the sound of creatures crawling and snuffling. He felt sure they would smell him out sooner or later."

But that is unimportant. Tolkien continues with...

Quote:

"Then he heard a noise in the distance. At first he thought it was a great wind coming over the leaves of the forest. Then he knew that it was not leaves, but the sound of the Sea far-off; a sound he had never heard in waking life, though it had often troubled his dreams. Suddenly he found he was out in the open. There were no trees after all. He was on a dark heath, and there was a strange salt smell in the air. Looking up he saw before him a tall white tower, standing alone on a high ridge. A great desire came over him to climb the tower and see the Sea. He started to struggle up the ridge towards the tower: but suddenly a light came in the sky, and there was a noise of thunder."

What does this dream mean? Why would Tolkien include it? Why is he troubled by the sea? Is it prophetic? Were there white towers at the Grey Haven?

Come forth with information to help me, my brain is tired of thinking and typing.

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 02-28-2003, 05:51 PM

Well the sea obviously signifies he will eventually go to the Undying Lands. The tower? Possibly a premonition about Gandalf in Isengard. But I think it really goes with the storm in the fact that he'll have many obstacles before he finds peace. The animals snuffling makes me think of Gollum...go figure.

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-28-2003, 06:09 PM

If I remember correctly, there were white towers in that area, but I don't know if they were at the Havens themselves.

olsonm · 02-28-2003, 06:14 PM

Yes, it was a prophetic dream just like his dream in Bombadil's house was:

Quote:

Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise. ---Fog on the Barrow-Downs; FOTR

Compare with:

Quote:

And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise. ---The Grey Havens; ROTK

Frodo's dream in Crickhollow seems to have been about hearing the sea from the White Towers west of the Shire, pre-figuring his trip to the Grey Havens.

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-01-2003, 08:15 AM

Something I've noticed is that a lot of what Tolkien writes might seem pointless at the time but it all ties in together.

Lady of Rohan · 03-01-2003, 10:45 AM

Well, what was the reason for snuffling creatures and who/what are they? For some reason I think of the creatures as the Nazgul/black riders, but I'm not sure if that is right.

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-01-2003, 12:18 PM

It reminds me of Gollum as I said before, but the Black Riders could work too. I think its an embodyment of the evil in Middle-earth. It depends on how he felt at hearing the snuffling noises, which all it said was a strong desire to see the Sea. So I think it was the evil standing in his way but it didn't matter because a very very minute part of him knew he would succeed. But of course that part of him was silenced when the Ring began to grow stronger. But perhaps it may have very well been the BRs just because he felt they would sniff him out soon.

Celebriel · 03-01-2003, 11:37 PM

The snuffling in his dream was the sound of the Nazgûl searching for him. He knew nothing about them at the time and they really frightened him. Anyways, he did not meet Gollum in person, yet.

#1GaMGeeGuRL · 03-02-2003, 08:48 AM

He hadn't seen the Nazgul either and if we're talking about prophetic dreams then he wouldn't have needed to.

02-28-2003, 05:51 PM	#2
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	Well the sea obviously signifies he will eventually go to the Undying Lands. The tower? Possibly a premonition about Gandalf in Isengard. But I think it really goes with the storm in the fact that he'll have many obstacles before he finds peace. The animals snuffling makes me think of Gollum...go figure. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

02-28-2003, 06:09 PM	#3
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	If I remember correctly, there were white towers in that area, but I don't know if they were at the Havens themselves. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-01-2003, 08:15 AM	#5
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	Something I've noticed is that a lot of what Tolkien writes might seem pointless at the time but it all ties in together. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

03-01-2003, 12:18 PM	#7
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	It reminds me of Gollum as I said before, but the Black Riders could work too. I think its an embodyment of the evil in Middle-earth. It depends on how he felt at hearing the snuffling noises, which all it said was a strong desire to see the Sea. So I think it was the evil standing in his way but it didn't matter because a very very minute part of him knew he would succeed. But of course that part of him was silenced when the Ring began to grow stronger. But perhaps it may have very well been the BRs just because he felt they would sniff him out soon. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... Last edited by #1GaMGeeGuRL : 03-01-2003 at 12:20 PM.

03-01-2003, 11:37 PM	#8
Celebriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 139	The snuffling in his dream was the sound of the Nazgûl searching for him. He knew nothing about them at the time and they really frightened him. Anyways, he did not meet Gollum in person, yet. __________________ ~ Celebriel ~ Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. ~ __________________

03-01-2003, 10:45 AM	#6
Lady of Rohan Doughy Elf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,006	Well, what was the reason for snuffling creatures and who/what are they? For some reason I think of the creatures as the Nazgul/black riders, but I'm not sure if that is right.

03-02-2003, 08:48 AM	#9
#1GaMGeeGuRL Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire Posts: 71	He hadn't seen the Nazgul either and if we're talking about prophetic dreams then he wouldn't have needed to. __________________ "When life gives you lemons, clone them and make SUPER LEMONS!!!!!" ~Professor Scudworth LONG LIVE THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE WEE SCARVIES! you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest we arrived in december and london was cold so we stayed in thebars along charing cross road we never saw nothin' but brass taps and oak kept a shine on the bar with the sleeves of our coats -chorus- euston station the train journey north in the buffet car we lurched back and forth past odd crooked dykes through yorkshire's green fields we were flung into dance as the train jigged and reeled you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home.... by the light of the moon she'd drift through the streets a rare old perfume so seductive and sweet she'd tease us and flirt as the pubs all closed down then walk us on home and deny us a round -chorus- the gas heater's empty, it's damp as a tomb and the spirits we drank are not ghosts in the room i'm knackered again, come on sleep take me soon and don't lift up my head 'till the the twelve bells at noon you'll have to excuse me, i'm not at my best i've been gone for a month i've been drunk since i left there so-called vacations will soon be my death i'm so sick from teh drink i need home for a rest take me home....

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