NJ Gov. McGreevey Resigns

[Lady Ravyn]

omg! he's resigning!
can you believe it?! and right after that highlands bill went through!

[Lady Ravyn]

and he's gay! even though he's been married-to a woman- 2 times and has kids including an infant!
who'd have thunk it!

[HOBBIT]

oh, you beat me to it. I posted something about this in the gay, lesbian, bisexual topic.



Yeah, wow. He just admitted to being a gay american and having an affair with another man.

[HOBBIT]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5686618/

[Insidious Rex]

makes you wonder.... if gays had been allowed to marry.... would you see stuff like this?

[Lady Ravyn]

actually, if i understand correctly, he's up on sexual abuse charges, right?
i'm sorta listening to the news coverage and posting at the same time so my info is a little strung out lol

[Ragnarok]

I think it's sad because I often think the "gay" people who are in relationships, even marriage, with the opposite sex do so as a result of the intense ostracizing the gay community gets. Of course I find extramarital affairs wrong and find it must be really hard on the wife, but on the other hand, homosexuals wouldn't be so incognito and using "marriage" as a beard if we had healthy attitudes towards the gay community.

Sadly, I think the right will spin this to their advantage.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

I think it's sad because I often think the "gay" people who are in relationships, even marriage, with the opposite sex do so as a result of the intense ostracizing the gay community gets. Of course I find extramarital affairs wrong and find it must be really hard on the wife, but on the other hand, homosexuals wouldn't be so incognito and using "marriage" as a beard if we had healthy attitudes towards the gay community.

Sadly, I think the right will spin this to their advantage.

Yeah 0 as if the left doesn't spin ANYTHING to their advantage. The thing is - he was and is a terrible governor. He is currently being investigated for illegal campaign contributions. He tried to stick the state with the bill for his family reunion in Ireland, and he had the state pay for using the state helicopter to take him to weddings and personal events - instead of driving.

He has been a terrible governor since he started and NJ should be happy to be rid of him.

It just sucks that his mug is on all our tourism commercials - which are completely useless now - because it's him pretending to be a happy family man.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Yeah 0 as if the left doesn't spin ANYTHING to their advantage. The thing is - he was and is a terrible governor. He is currently being investigated for illegal campaign contributions. He tried to stick the state with the bill for his family reunion in Ireland, and he had the state pay for using the state helicopter to take him to weddings and personal events - instead of driving.

He has been a terrible governor since he started and NJ should be happy to be rid of him.

It just sucks that his mug is on all our tourism commercials - which are completely useless now - because it's him pretending to be a happy family man.

I wasn't refering to his role as governor. That has nothing to do with him being a homosexual. I don't care if he was a bad governor, that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

I wasn't refering to his role as governor. That has nothing to do with him being a homosexual. I don't care if he was a bad governor, that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

But the thing is - supposedly this whole thing has far more than him just being gay. I don't personally care that he is gay - but the fact that he is on all our commercials and has presented himself as a happy family man. Also - how is he supposed to be a governor with all this going on in his life? How much time do you think he's going to be able to spend on issues in NJ while trying to deal with his family life. This isn't a small event in a family. It is much bigger for his familty than him having a standard affair.

I am sort of upset right now by the game he's playing though too. He announced his resignation, but he is not going to resign until AFTER the november elections. If he resigned before the elections - then we would be having a gubernatorial election come November and we would be able to vote for who our new governor would be. Becuase he is waiting though - the president of the Senate, who is a democrat, will be governor until November 2005 elections. Why not just resign and let the VOTERS vote for our next governor.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

But the thing is - supposedly this whole thing has far more than him just being gay. I don't personally care that he is gay - but the fact that he is on all our commercials and has presented himself as a happy family man. Also - how is he supposed to be a governor with all this going on in his life? How much time do you think he's going to be able to spend on issues in NJ while trying to deal with his family life. This isn't a small event in a family. It is much bigger for his familty than him having a standard affair.

I am sort of upset right now by the game he's playing though too. He announced his resignation, but he is not going to resign until AFTER the november elections. If he resigned before the elections - then we would be having a gubernatorial election come November and we would be able to vote for who our new governor would be. Becuase he is waiting though - the president of the Senate, who is a democrat, will be governor until November 2005 elections. Why not just resign and let the VOTERS vote for our next governor.

Thats nice, I was discussing how his homosexuality will have an effect on the whole thing, I'm not interested in his career as governor.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It just sucks that his mug is on all our tourism commercials - which are completely useless now - because it's him pretending to be a happy family man.

You put your gouvenor in tourism commercials? That's.... creepy, I hope they never get that bright idea here...

Though it's rather hypocritical of him to resign only after the elections. That's the sort of politics that makes me weary of any politician.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

You put your gouvenor in tourism commercials? That's.... creepy, I hope they never get that bright idea here...

How is it creepy? It's a state commercial - the governor represents the state and invites vistors to the state. New Mexico's governor appears in their commercials, as do most governors. I just think that our governor shouldn't be in the commercials - because of reasons like this. The commercials are now ruined. The commercials are in no way creepy but since you have never seen them - I guess you wouldn't be able to make a judgement on them.

[Earniel]

No indeed, I haven't seem them. I was commenting more on the idea of having politicians in commercials to inspire people to pay your state a visit. It's probably just because I'm not too fond of politicians and was thinking how it would be when they would do it here too. It just seem odd to me, that's probably a better word for how it seems to me.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Though it's rather hypocritical of him to resign only after the elections. That's the sort of politics that makes me weary of any politician.

well if he resigns now they are faced with an election in november and another the very next year. rather a waste of money i would think. plus they dont want this situation bubbling to life right as the presidential race is finishing.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

well if he resigns now they are faced with an election in november and another the very next year. rather a waste of money i would think. plus they dont want this situation bubbling to life right as the presidential race is finishing.

There isn't an election next year at all if it takes place now. At least no one has said there would be. The person elected in November would be governor for 4 years - not one.

[EDIT]
Note this is what the NJ Consitution says...

Article V
Executive
Section I

9 In the event of a vacancy in the office of Governor, a Governor shall be elected to fill the unexpired term at the general election next succeeding the vacancy, unless the vacancy shall occur within sixty days immediately preceeding a general election, in which case he shall be elected at the second succeeding general election; but no election to fill an unexpired term shall be held in any year in which a Governor is to be elected for a full term. A Governor elected for an unexpired term shall assume his office immediately upon his election.

No one has brought up that the person elected would only be there for the one year. I'm not completely sure what would happen. It seems as if the person would be elected only for the unexpired term as IR said. However - since this is a major election year and ALL the polling places will be open throughout the state for the presidential elections - I'm not sure how this wopudl be a waste of money. It may be a waste for the candidates - but it wouldn't really cost the government that much. We have 90 days to prepare for it.

What it boils down to is that McGreevey wants to guarantee that a democrat finishes out his term. There was an election now - with how little Mcgreevey is liked - there is no guarantee that a democrat would be elected. It is very possible that Bret Schundler could be elected.

[katya]

[deleted by me lol]

[jerseydevil]

Nightline is having on about it right now. It's rather interesting - but at this time so much is rumor. It seems as if a lot of what Hobbit was saying is the rumor - the person he had an affair with is blackmailing him.

McGreevey tried making him the terrorism czar for New Jersey, but the guy couldn't get security clearance. He is an Israeli national. McGreevey then made him an aid with a $110,000/yr salary for doing nothing.

[Ben]

<admin>Ragnarok seems to be within the bounds of reasonable discussion for this thread. McGreevey's sexuality was clearly not the driving force behind his resignation, but it's still a facet of this episode. "Gay" or "homosexual" was in all of the headlines the next day.</admin>

<regular user>Like JD, I am not sorry to see McGreevey go. When politicians of my own party have ethical lapses, I am particularly saddened because these scandals could set back our goals and progress in New Jersey. McGreevey was certainly sleazy, but sadly we haven't had a good governor in a while. He had some policy accomplishments in office, and I can't say that the Christie Whitman (Republican) or DiFrancesco (Republican) administrations were any better. Bret Schundler would have been a disaster for the state because his politics are too extreme for NJ.

Sometimes I suspect that Sens. Lautenberg and Corzine are the only honest politicians left in the state, and probably only because they're multi-gazillionaires who can't be bought.

Let's not kid ourselves: everyone's position on the special election is based on politics. Republicans want it because they think that any potential public backlash against Democrats would be most potent this November, as opposed to next November. This has national repercussions as well - if Republicans are motivated to come to the polls in higher numbers this November, the state could be in play in the presidential race, their thinking goes. I think most people are smart enough to separate McGreevey (an early Dean backer) from Kerry, though.

Rep. Menendez (Democrat) and some Democratic party bosses want the special election so that Richard Codey, who will become Acting Governor, can't keep the job. This is because the Democratic Party is divided into different factions, and some bosses want to keep Codey out of power even if it means Democrats are out of power. Menendez hopes to pick up Sen. Corzine's Senate seat if he became Governor. Corzine may want it if he thinks this is his easiest shot at the job.

In general, I don't feel that a special election should be held in these circumstances. If the U.S. president leaves office, the Vice President automatically assumes control for the full remainder of the term. I believe that in most other states, this is the case with their Lt. Governor. New Jersey should adopt an elected Lt. Governor position to solve this problem. This is a silly quirk in our state Constitution.

I suspect that there will only be a special election if Corzine agrees to run. In that case, he'd be the heavy favorite to win, unless the Republicans can unearth Tom Kean Sr.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

However - since this is a major election year and ALL the polling places will be open throughout the state for the presidential elections - I'm not sure how this wopudl be a waste of money. It may be a waste for the candidates - but it wouldn't really cost the government that much. We have 90 days to prepare for it.

Gubernatorial candidates in NJ are at partially publically financed, so two elections in the space of two years would double the cost to taxpayers. Seems like a waste of money to me, especially considering money is so tight in the state these days. Sources about public financing: Common Cause, Campaign Finance Site, Council of State Governments

If the special election took place, there would be a gubernatorial election in 2004 and 2005. The winner in 2004 would serve one year and then only be eligible to serve four more years if he won again in 2005. Source: Star Ledger

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It is very possible that Bret Schundler could be elected.

Schundler would never be selected by the GOP to run in the special election unless all other options were exhausted. The GOP establishment in NJ is moderate, while Schundler is an outsider conservative. It is much more likely that the GOP would anoint a moderate or liberal Republican such as Tom Kean Jr. There's even been talk of bringing back Tom Kean Sr., but I'd hope that the 9/11 Commission can remain active to make sure their recommendations are enacted nationwide.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

And since you made the comment about "I think the right will spin this to their advantage." I think you have a slanted view of the whole thing. Instead of discussing the issue of his resigning - you seem to want to discuss something that isn't really being discussed in NJ and that is him being gay and make accusations of how the "right" is reacting to it.

I'm in New Jersey and I've been discussing these issues. You are correct that McGreevey did enough damage to himself that Republicans wouldn't need to use his sexuality against him - at least not in New Jersey. There are some parts of the country, though, where the fact that there's a Democratic gay governor could potentially be used for political purposes.

I have to agree with Ragnarok's main charge, which is that it's nearly impossible to be openly gay and in high political office. McGreevey did some very bad, unethical things. No doubt about that. However, he's had some powerful demons bottled up in him for some time. The man was forced into the closet by society. He's a Catholic, and the church preaches that homosexuality is immoral. New Jersey may be a tolerant state, but no state has ever had an openly gay governor or senator (until now). I don't believe he would have even been a gubernatorial nominee had he been openly gay. McGreevey's true identity, unfortunately, stood as a direct obstacle to his personal and career goals. What would you have had him do? I'm not saying I approve of his decisions, but he didn't have a lot of good options.

Is this a separate, unrelated issue? Maybe, but I suspect a lot of powerbrokers had quite a bit on dirt on McGreevey, which is one reason he was so beholden to them.