Elves > Men?

Peter_20 · 03-31-2007, 08:19 AM

Am I the only one who always thought that Elves were superior to Men in all possible aspects?
I honestly can't think of a single thing in which Men are superior to Elves.
It's stated in The Silmarillion that Elves possess greater skill, greater beauty, greater endurance and so on, and yes - they are destined to have "the greater bliss in Arda" as well.
Their lives begin by a great, beautiful lake, and they're guided by Oromë the Vala to The Blessed Realm.
Their life is a part of the world itself, they are able to "sleep" while wandering, they got great gifts of sight and hearing - and so on.
Men seem worse in everything, even, even power "the Elves had the greater power".

What was Ilúvatar thinking, anyway?

"Ah, time for the next race: Atani!
They shall strongly resemble the Elves in looks, BUT... I will give them worse sight and hearing, they shall be weaker, they shall have the lesser bliss, they shall definitely not visit Paradise in Aman, they shall be subject to sickness - and they shall be mortal, and start withering in their 50's or 60's.
Yeah, that's about it."

The Telcontarion · 03-31-2007, 09:36 AM

Well, while the elves were bonded to the destiny of the world foreseen through the music of the ainur, only men where not. For if the elves were to tire of the world, they could not escape it in life or in death, they would always return. Man could depart.

The whole character of men were different because of this. We took more risk, and lived far more vigorously than they did. It was common for man to experience far more in his short life span than an elf would in all it's long ages of life. For their lives are set and predestined, while the chances of life are like onto man as a pear of dice at play; we can keep shaking it up until we get what we seek.

I would even argue that, in this way we where more like onto illuvatar than were the elves; we decided our own faith.

Peter_20 · 03-31-2007, 10:49 AM

Well, alright, but why did the Atani get worse sight and hearing, and why did they become subject to ills and so on?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

***Valandil*** · 03-31-2007, 11:15 AM

Chalk it up to the wisdom of Iluvatar.

Perhaps he wanted us to realize at some point, that we needed to look past this world, since we're not bound to it forever. Our tendency to "break down" prompts us to think about what lies beyond.

***Earniel*** · 03-31-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valandil

Perhaps he wanted us to realize at some point, that we needed to look past this world, since we're not bound to it forever. Our tendency to "break down" prompts us to think about what lies beyond.

That's an interesting suggestion. I've never thought about it before, but it makes sense.

Jon S. · 04-01-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I would even argue that, in this way we where more like onto illuvatar than were the elves; we decided our own faith.

Profound and I agree completely. Put differently, there's a huge difference between "I know" and "I believe."

Men are also arguably better at reproducing and better at processing and moving on from certain types of serious emotional shocks such as the death of a spouse.

The Gaffer · 04-01-2007, 04:14 PM

Or the theft of a jewel

***Tessar*** · 04-01-2007, 04:28 PM

Awww, c'mon. No one would, like, start a WAR or anything over a -jewel-.

You're so dramatic, Gaffer.

Noble Elf Lord · 04-03-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

Awww, c'mon. No one would, like, start a WAR or anything over a -jewel-.

You're so dramatic, Gaffer.

Really? What about the silmaril?

Anyways, I think Men were created to protect Middle-earth after the exodus of the Elves. Most Elves had departed to the West before the War of the Ring took place. And without Men, Lorien, Rivendell, Mithlond and Mirkwood would have become islands in Sauron´s war, isolated and under siege, someday destined to fall into darkness. Not even the aid of the Dwarves could have saved them: there would have been no Dale and its archers. Elves and Dwarves were few though powerful, and Men were many but scattered. Hobbits destroyed the Ring, Elves and Dwarves held their homes against the Shadow, but it was into the fortresses of Men that the greatest blows were struck by Sauron. United by Aragorn and Gandalf Men prevailed, and the Shadow sunk into the Void. ... Gee, no wonder my English is 10 at school...

03-31-2007, 08:19 AM	#1
Peter_20 Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 104	Elves > Men? Am I the only one who always thought that Elves were superior to Men in all possible aspects? I honestly can't think of a single thing in which Men are superior to Elves. It's stated in The Silmarillion that Elves possess greater skill, greater beauty, greater endurance and so on, and yes - they are destined to have "the greater bliss in Arda" as well. Their lives begin by a great, beautiful lake, and they're guided by Oromë the Vala to The Blessed Realm. Their life is a part of the world itself, they are able to "sleep" while wandering, they got great gifts of sight and hearing - and so on. Men seem worse in everything, even, even power "the Elves had the greater power". What was Ilúvatar thinking, anyway? "Ah, time for the next race: Atani! They shall strongly resemble the Elves in looks, BUT... I will give them worse sight and hearing, they shall be weaker, they shall have the lesser bliss, they shall definitely not visit Paradise in Aman, they shall be subject to sickness - and they shall be mortal, and start withering in their 50's or 60's. Yeah, that's about it." Last edited by Peter_20 : 03-31-2007 at 09:18 AM.

03-31-2007, 09:36 AM	#2
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	Well, while the elves were bonded to the destiny of the world foreseen through the music of the ainur, only men where not. For if the elves were to tire of the world, they could not escape it in life or in death, they would always return. Man could depart. The whole character of men were different because of this. We took more risk, and lived far more vigorously than they did. It was common for man to experience far more in his short life span than an elf would in all it's long ages of life. For their lives are set and predestined, while the chances of life are like onto man as a pear of dice at play; we can keep shaking it up until we get what we seek. I would even argue that, in this way we where more like onto illuvatar than were the elves; we decided our own faith. __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

03-31-2007, 11:15 AM	#4
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Chalk it up to the wisdom of Iluvatar. Perhaps he wanted us to realize at some point, that we needed to look past this world, since we're not bound to it forever. Our tendency to "break down" prompts us to think about what lies beyond. __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

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03-31-2007, 10:49 AM	#3
Peter_20 Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 104	Well, alright, but why did the Atani get worse sight and hearing, and why did they become subject to ills and so on? That makes no sense whatsoever.

04-01-2007, 04:14 PM	#7
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	Or the theft of a jewel

04-01-2007, 04:28 PM	#8
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	Awww, c'mon. No one would, like, start a WAR or anything over a -jewel-. You're so dramatic, Gaffer.