11-03-2002, 01:06 AM | #1 | ||||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Valar's Love for the Eldar
It is obvious from the Ainulindalë that the Valar had definitely a love for the Eldar:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It is interesting to note that while Aulë loved the Noldor the most, he didn't helped them after their rebellion as Ulmo did. Now, it's something to wonder at.
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
||||
11-03-2002, 02:56 AM | #2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
|
It is indeed. Though few of them realized it, the friend of the Exiled Ñoldor among the Valar was definitely Ulmo. Interesting thoughts to ponder, Heru Maitimo Russandol.
__________________
Falmon -- Dylan |
11-03-2002, 04:04 PM | #3 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 856
|
Ulmo at one point says that his his particular role as envisioned by the music was to at times gainsay the official policies of the valar (like the ban of the noldoror ) to the extent that he could with out out being in rebellion.
|
11-03-2002, 06:08 PM | #4 |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
another thing i have allways thought was that they marveled at the life at which eru gave them. the elves were something beyond the craft of all the valar. Its like us marveling at a painting by some artist safe in the knoledge we could never achive that? if you know what i mean?
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
11-03-2002, 11:18 PM | #5 | ||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
Quote:
If you look in the Fall of Gondolin, you would see that Aulë was more revered than Ulmo, even in Gondolin. I wonder why?
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
||
11-04-2002, 08:06 PM | #6 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
|
Quote:
__________________
Falmon -- Dylan |
|
11-04-2002, 08:30 PM | #7 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
ummm, what does all that mean??
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-05-2002, 12:33 AM | #8 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
|
Maedhros' name in Valinor was Nelyafinwe Maitimo Russandol.
Neylafinwe = "Third Finwe (in succession)". The first "Finwe" being Finwe, the second Finwe being Curufinwe (Feanor), and the son of the second Finwe being Maedhros. Maitimo = "Well shaped (one)". He was of exceptional bodily form, even for an Elf (a real catch, ladies and gentlemen, if you ignore the unfortunate business of his bleak fate and treacherous oath). Russandol = "Copper top". Maedhros had the red-brown hair of his mother's family. "Maedhros" is an adaptation of "Maitimo" and "Russandol" into Sindarin. Heru = "lord". So I said, "Interesting thoughts to ponder, Heru Maitimo Russandol", i.e., "Interesting thoughts to ponder, Lord Maedhros." Maedhros, the poster, being delightfully informed and one who informs with delight, reminded me of the name his father gave him: Nelyafinwe, which I excluded from my sentence. I, however, being one who also informs with delight, pointed out that I was only using the Quenya names of the character that correspond to his user-name: Maedhros. "Nelyafinwe" has no linguistic relation to "Maedhros", as Entmoot's Maedhros knows well. And now, the impressive ending:
__________________
Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 11-05-2002 at 12:36 AM. |
11-05-2002, 01:27 AM | #9 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Well, I've heard of Nelyafinwe, but not of Maitimo or Russandol. Those names must be in a HoME book that I don't have yet - I don't recall seeing them in Morgoth's Ring.
But, in the words of one of our most beloved hobbits, "Thag you very buch" for the info! Very interesting! BTW, Ñólendil, seen any scary horses lately?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-05-2002, 01:58 AM | #10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
|
Yor very belcum.
The HoMe book is The Peoples of Middle-earth, in "The Shibboleth of Fëanor". There you will find the Quenderin names of all the sons of Fëanor, which out of sheer, absurd arrogance and a lack of things to do I list here: Nelyafinwe Maitimo Russandol [Maedhros] Canafinwe Macalaure [Maglor] Turcafinwe Tyelcormo [Celegorm] Curufinwe Atarince [Curufin] Morifinwe Carnistir [Caranthir] Nityafinwe Ambarussa [Amros] Telufinwe Ambarussa (also called Ambarto and Umbarto) [Amros] Of course there is no good reason for posting this, and enough of you know it already. I don't care If anyone was wondering, I realise what form of the names I have given the youngest sons of Feanor. It is in accordance with a later idea put forth by Tolkien. Nityafinwe was called Amros in Beleriand. Telufinwe was the first of the Sons to die and did not live long enough to change his name, but he in memory was also called Amros.
__________________
Falmon -- Dylan |
11-05-2002, 12:41 PM | #11 |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
I tip my hat to Ñóledil, he really knows his stuff.
BTW, what is the proper form of the Noldor: Noldor or Ñoldor, I have seen both.
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
11-05-2002, 01:01 PM | #12 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I imagine that Ñólendil, he of the 2 diacritical marks, will also add Ngoldor. Am I right, Ñólendil?
BTW, Maedhros, your avatar is very interesting. Who is the artist, and is it a part of a larger picture? The story of Maedhros' torment, and Fingon the valiant saving Maedhros, is so moving. BTW #2 - Ngolendil, did you ever see my post on how to work on improving the pronunciation of the initial Ng sound in the "Is Manwë Japanese" thread?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 11-05-2002 at 01:07 PM. |
11-05-2002, 03:24 PM | #13 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
|
11-05-2002, 04:36 PM | #14 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
||
11-05-2002, 04:45 PM | #15 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
|
11-05-2002, 08:36 PM | #16 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
|
Quote:
"Noldor" is the pronunciation of the word (and others with the initial ñ sound) in the Third Age, mainly by Men. The Men of the Third Age who spoke Quenya were lazy, and the initial ñ (ng) sound was reduced to n. In the Elder Days, it was Ñoldor. The Ñoldor themselves of course wrote in Tengwar -- and they had one tengwa that represented our "ng" -- so a little bit of how you spell an Elvish word depends on taste, (though most really depends on Tolkien's taste, as his consistent spellings are widely regard as canon). You don't have to write "Quendi", you can write "Kwendi", if you like, but "Quendi" -- so say most -- is more pleasing to look at. In some cases, it's really only the sound achieved that counts (you can use "c" or "k", it doesn't really matter, only maybe you might prefer one to the other because of their look). So with "Ñoldor" or "Ñolendil". You can write "Ngoldor" or "Ngolendil" if you like, but the "N" with the tilde over is more pleasing (if you ask me and many others). So, when talking about the Noldor in general, use "N" or "Ñ" as you prefer. When talking about the Ñoldor of the Elder Days, it makes more sense to me to use "Ñ", but use what you like; when talking about the Noldor of the fading years, it makes more sense to me to use "N", but use what you like. Quote:
__________________
Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 11-05-2002 at 08:44 PM. |
||
11-05-2002, 09:52 PM | #17 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
It must not have been very profound, then Actually, it helped me quite a lot, so I put it in in case it might help others.
Thanks for the art info, Artanis! I'll have to pop over to a bookstore sometime soon and see if I can look at some of his work. I really like what I have seen so far. Too bad he's not v. accurate about hair colors, etc., because they are an important part to me, esp. because they indicate an elf's parentage in many cases. But the really big question, Maedhros, is: do you get the diacritical marks in your posts by typing in the alt-number codes, or do you cut and paste, like I have to, because I have a really irritating keyboard? (you don't have to answer! It was just an issue for several of us, and it got very frustrating, so I joke about it now)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 11-05-2002 at 09:54 PM. |
11-06-2002, 12:19 AM | #18 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
|
11-06-2002, 02:13 AM | #19 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
11-06-2002, 02:55 AM | #20 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
|
A bit off topic, are we? Perhaps you should start a diacritical marks thread?
__________________
--Life is hard, and then we die. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
lyrics thread ( not silly or trite) | afro-elf | Entertainment Forum | 511 | 03-19-2009 04:22 PM |
Theology III | Earniel | General Messages | 1007 | 07-02-2008 02:22 PM |
Theological Opinions , PART II | jerseydevil | General Messages | 993 | 03-22-2007 05:19 AM |
Love??? | sexy hobbit chick | General Messages | 207 | 10-10-2005 10:01 AM |
On Love | Ñólendil | General Messages | 22 | 11-06-2004 05:43 PM |