02-01-2009, 02:12 PM | #1 |
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Gondor's sea power / Middle Earth economics
I have wondered for a while now about the role of sea power in the ancient world. Obviously, boats from long past couldn't project power on land as modern ships do (via guns, missiles, etc.), so what made them so important?
A little while ago, I finally (I am one lazy bum )did some reading about the rise of sea power in the Mediterranean, and got my answer. Military ships existed, first and foremost, to protect or prey upon other ships. Their importance was tied, to a very large degree, to the importance of sea-going trade. Considering that some cities (I think Athens and Rome are good examples) became dependent on food delivered by ship to feed their populations, the potential power of navies becomes very apparent. So, to my questions. Doesn't Gondor's, along with it's southern neighbors', possession of navies essentially prove that those neighbors, and likely Gondor itself, depended on sea-going trade? Since there are few other potential coastal trading partners, doesn't it suggest that Gondor itself probably engaged in significant trade with these other countries? Last edited by CAB : 02-01-2009 at 02:14 PM. |
02-01-2009, 05:14 PM | #2 | |
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A very interesting thread, CAB!
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Now, if we return to ME, we have Umbar and Black Numenorean harbors (situated to the south of it) versus Gondor. The Wave of the Downfall washed away most of Pelargir and I guess all the significant shipping was destroyed. The same happened with Lond Daer Ened. The same likely happened with the southern ports, but not with Umbar. Umbar was a great natural harbor, protected from the sea by high cliffs. So, after the Downfall we see the situation when the Black Numenoreans likely got more ships than the Faithful, who maybe had only 5 warships brought by Isildur and Anarion from Numenor. There are no accounts of naval battles during the Last Alliance. Likely, after Isildur's ships had decayed from age, Gondor didn't build new ones. For about 900 years Gondor seemed uninterested in navy. Did they have merchant fleet? Unlikely, at least not on a large scale - because the merchant ships would be attacked from Umbar and Gondor would feel the need to build navy much sooner. Likely at the time all the trade along the coasts was carried out by Umbarians. It doesn't seem that the relationships between Gondor and Umbar were too bad during the most part of the first millennium of the Third Age. Tarannon even married a lady from Umbar, Beruthiel. Yet the "divorce" with Beruthiel likely led to complete quarrel with Umbar. And here the Umbarian navy and trade ships (acting as privateers) likely started assaulting and pillaging costal towns in Gondor. Then the Kings dropped all other matters and started to build the navy, becoming Sea-Kings. After the capture of Umbar by Gondor around TA 1000, most of the sea trade was likely done by Gondoreans. All was well till the Kin-Strife, when Castamir's sons not only deserted to Umbar but also likely took with them most of the Gondor fleet. And again, the situation returned to that before Tarannon. Last edited by Gordis : 02-01-2009 at 05:16 PM. |
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02-02-2009, 12:56 AM | #3 |
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I think the main function of Gondor's navies initially (that is, starting with the line of Ship Kings), was to ferry armies along the coast, and thereby expand Gondor's power and influence. In and of itself, this made a military force MUCH more mobile. This is even demonstrated long after the Ship Kings - when Earnil sends an army of Gondor under Earnur by sea to Lindon.
Eventually there may have been ship-to-ship battles (but is there any direct evidence of them - esp in the age of the Ship Kings?). This would not have arisen when Gondor had no rival at sea (or else - when Gondor was no rival to another sea power). It could be that Umbar itself had lost the need for naval power in the early years of the Third Age. Or - it could be that Gondor's Ship Kings set out to challenge the sea power that Umbar represented, ca 800 Third Age. I think Gondor could have had a good deal of trade by sea along its own coasts - and also north and west to its sister kingdom of Arnor. There were certainly times when the trade winds also blew south - but mostly when the lands to the south were at peace with Gondor, or when Umbar was under Gondor's influence. Otherwise, trading ships would have been in danger - from both navies.
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02-02-2009, 01:26 PM | #4 | ||
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02-02-2009, 03:22 PM | #5 |
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Wouldn't the land route have taken them through disputed territory? In doing so they would have exposed not just their soldiers but their supply trains to Angmar's forces. Gondor's forces might have suffered much heavier losses and still been too late to save Arthedain.
In going by sea they ensured that all movements of their forces took place far from the actual war, meaning they gave Angmar the opportunity to believe they wouldn't come, giving them a slight advantage of surprise when they did come and allowing them to drive Angmar out of Arthedain. Gondor would likely have seen Arvedui as a lost cause at that point, saving him wasn't their concern, and the land wasn't going anywhere, they could re-take that if it was conquered. Knowing that, it makes sense that they opted for the strategically safer sea-route. In Medditerenean history sea-routes have almost always been preferred to land routes. It's very difficult to move large quantities of people and goods over land and the difficulty increases in mountainous terrain, which, if I remember the map correctly, a significant portion of Middle Earth is. Even with the possibilities of storms and pirates, going by sea would have been the easier method of traveling.
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02-02-2009, 04:14 PM | #6 |
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The key advantage of sea power (before the early modern era, when transoceanic shipping became a major part of sea power) has always been logistical and strategic, as Willow implies. Your supply lines are much easier to cut when the enemy can simply ride down from the mountains/out of the forest and burn a baggage train than when you have heavily armed ships moving goods and men. It is much less likely that you will run into a hostile force by accident on the sea, or that your men will be harried by guerrillas. And the sea provides a neutral access point; violating neutral land territory is strategically dangerous in ways that sailing through even coastal waters is not. You can anger your allies, or neutral nations. Also, going across land tends to result in accidental pillage and strife even without the intervention of an opposing force.
Additionally, Willow is quite correct about mountains - they make efficient land travel very difficult for an army, and supply even more so. The sea may sometimes be slower if you must gather the ships, but it is much more secure.
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02-02-2009, 05:47 PM | #7 | |||
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The original impetus for the Númenórean fleet was exploration: Aldarion returned to Middle-earth to explore. Trade quickly became the primary focus of Númenórean activity for the next thousand years: trade between Lindon and Armenelos, and also between the Númenóreans and the Men of the Twilight. A few Númenóreans seem to have returned to Middle-earth as colonists, but very few.
After the War between the Elves and Sauron, which ended in II 1700, Númenórean trade spread rapidly all along the coast of Middle-earth, with the establishment of “dominions” along the coast after II 1800. These “dominions” would be Númenórean colonies, trading harbors, or native kingdoms under the domination of Númenor, all classic Imperialism. “Umbar is made into a great fortress of Númenor” in II 2280, and Pelargir was founded in II 2350: both of these events took place under the reign of Tar-Atanamir. The destruction of Númenor created a tsunami that wrecked most of the Númenórean harbors. It is possible that Umbar and Lindon were spared to some degree because of their natural harborage, and the same might also be true of Edhellond, the port associated with Dol Amroth. Before writing off Pelargir, you should consider that it was 100 miles inland along the Anduin: it is likely that Pelargir of all the Númenórean or Elvish ports except Tharbad, which was also an inland port, fared best. (Mithlond and Harlond along the Lhûn in Lindon might also have survived, but from the maps, they appear to be far more exposed than Pelargir and especially Tharbad, where the only technical problem should have been clearing the mouth of the Gwathló at Vinyalondë.) We know very little about the Númenórean ports and cities south of Umbar in the Second Age, except that there were apparently more of them and they were more heavily populated than those in the north: in other words, there are more Dúnedain communities we don’t know about than those that we do: the Faithful Númenóreans, whose descendents we meet in Lord of the Rings, were the minority party of Númenórean religion, culture, and politics. Most the of the other party, the King’s Men, the Black Númenóreans of the Third Age, were killed in the disastrous assault on Valinor near the end of the Second Age that led directly to the ruin of Númenor: the southern Númenórean cities seem to have been severely depopulated as a result. All that to say this: the primary purpose in the Second Age for the Númenórean fleet was unquestionably trade, and the secondary purpose was military. The whole fleet, both merchant and military, was simply enormous by the end of the Second Age. A significant portion of the Black Númenórean (King’s Men) fleet was probably committed to the assault on Valinor and thus lost, and more of it was lost in the tsunami that followed. The Faithful did not commit any of their part of the merchant fleet to the assault, nor were any military vessels in their possession likely committed to that scheme. Since they were mostly in the northwest of Middle-earth, and since Pelargir and Tharbad and possibly Lindon probably survived the tsunami better than the rest of the western coastlands, it was the Faithful who were likely in possession of the only intact fleet at the end of the Second Age, as well as the only intact command-and-control for any military activity. It was over 100 years from the founding of the Dúnedain kingdoms-in-exile, Arnor and Gondor, until the outbreak of the War of the Last Alliance. During this time, the Faithful Dúnedain probably sailed south to see what was left of the other Númenórean colonies. In the event, the Black Númenóreans held to their alliance with Sauron, and their armies (and navies, perhaps) were destroyed in the war. During the Third Age, there seems to have been significant trade between Arnor and Gondor for many centuries. Tharbad continued to be an important inland port, and the two kingdoms maintained the ancient bridge and causeway together: this is an important point, because who-pays-for-what is always a sticking point in such agreements, and the two kingdoms managed to not only keep only the passage, but to avoid fighting for control over the complex. Tharbad was finally rendered impassable until III 2912, almost 1000 years after the end of the North Kingdom, when Bilbo was 22 years old, and only 107 years before Aragorn refounded the Reunited Kingdom! In an unnumbered, asterisked footnote to “Appendix D: The Port of Lond Daer” of “History Of Galadriel And Celeborn” in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien makes it clear that the Faithful Númenóreans never stopped trading by sea. Quote:
The wars of the Ship-kings apparently not only defeated the southern kingdoms and city-states, but gave the folk of Gondor trading rights to their ports. According to Appendix A of RotK, Atanatar II Alcarin, son of the last Ship-king, Quote:
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As for movement of the Army of Gondor to Arthedain, remember two things. First, Gondor had just fought a war against the Wainriders that nearly wiped out the Southern Kingdom just a few years before. Even though the Wainrider army had been destroyed, there may still have been roving bands of brigands in Rhovanion and the Vales of Anduin. The most direct route would have been through Calenardhon and thus through Eriador, crossing at Tharbad; however, that would have entailed a massive baggage train vulnerable to assault, and it would have meant that the principal forces of the allies – the army of Gondor and the combined army of Lindon and the remnant of Arnor – would have been split, with the powerful army of Angmar in between them, along with the strong possibility that they might have found Tharbad held against them, leaving the whole enterprise in ruins. That leaves the best means of transport to Arnor by sea. While we’re discussing Gondor, we should also note that Arnor’s best access to the sea should have been through Lindon and the ports along the Lhûn. The Eldar living in Lindon did not seem to want to participate in trade with Men, nor do they seem to want to have been bothered with Men and their doings, it would seem: commerce is unfortunately still seen by many folks as beneath them. Arnor’s only active port was Tharbad: they did not open any other ports along the Gwathló in Cardolan. Last edited by Alcuin : 02-02-2009 at 05:59 PM. |
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02-02-2009, 09:28 PM | #8 | |
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I think they either underestimated the threat to Arthedain, or else were not particularly desirous of saving it (although defeating Angmar was still seen as a positive).
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02-03-2009, 12:01 AM | #9 | ||||
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From RotK, “Appendix A”, “Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion” Quote:
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The idea that it took one-and-a-half years to raise, equip, provender and transport an expeditionary force is not unreasonable. Arvedui called for military assistance in the autumn of III 1973. Fornost fell sometime in 1974, and Arvedui, isolated in the North Downs and separated from the survivors of his people on the other side of the Lhûn, fled north to the Icebay of Forochel. Arvedui died with C*rdan’s Elven sailors in March of 1975, which could have been either late winter or earliest spring. The text seems to me to indicate that Eärnur arrived in Lindon shortly thereafter. The earliest possible time the call for assistance could have been sent was September 21, III 1973, but possibly as late as mid-December. Arvedui’s ship sank 15-18 months later. It probably took the ships of Gondor several weeks to sail up the coast (over 1700 miles, according to my ruler, about 2 weeks in the very best conditions, sailing full crew day and night at 5-8 knots, which would have been unlikely with a large force that might become separated; or about 4-6 weeks under normal conditions). They would not have sailed in the dead of winter because of storms, so we can assume that the earliest that the force of Gondor could have arrived was probably early spring 1975. Like Valandil, I think Eärnil’s greatest problem was probably convincing his countrymen to go to the aid of Arthedain. Last edited by Alcuin : 02-03-2009 at 02:02 AM. Reason: punctuation et clarity |
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02-04-2009, 06:04 PM | #10 | ||
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It is not like he needed to convince anybody (except maybe his Council). Gondor was never a democratic state. The King orders, the men obey. As for the necessity to intervene, it had to become apparent once the Witch-King became King at Fornost. Gondor could never permit to have such a strong enemy on her northern borders. It would have been suicidal. |
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02-04-2009, 06:47 PM | #11 | |
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02-04-2009, 07:29 PM | #12 | |
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Also, the opinion of the general population would matter. The King can give all the orders he likes, but if the people don't accept him as king, and there would have been a portion of the population, perhaps a significant portion, who would have disapproved of Earnil's appointment and maybe even seen his call to another war as confirmation of their doubts about him, then there's no gurantee that they'll obey. What's more, if he was calling them to war on the basis of "we need to liberate Arnor from this tryant who's taking over and killing our kinsmen," he wouldn't be able to overtly force anyone to obey him without appearing to be a tyrant himself.
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02-04-2009, 09:51 PM | #13 | |||||
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All the same, I think you underestimate the labor and logistics required to launch a seaborne expedition with the kind of Dark Age or medieval technology that Tolkien describes in his writings. During the Roman Civil Wars between Caesar and Pompey, for example, it regularly required many months to launch seaborne ventures at much closer range in the Mediterranean which, while still a famously stormy sea in its own right, is not subject to the kinds of intensely violent storms (like hurricanes) that mariners upon the Atlantic sometimes endure. In the Middle Ages, it took nearly a year-and-a-half to prepare the First Crusade, and another year to reach Constantinople. And, as I pointed out, Gondor had suffered a devastating war only a generation earlier, and the country had sat upon the edge of a knife while they sought for a year to avoid another civil war over the succession. Quote:
Finally, if there was any suspicion or political intrigue still running 30 years after the succession, as is not unlikely, the decision to go to the succor of Arthedain might have been controversial either practically or conveniently for one or another of the factions of nobility. Gondor’s political solidarity at the end of the Third Age under Denethor II was surely driven as much by expediency – Sauron would kill or enslave the entire population of Gondor if he won the war – as any other consideration. There is no reason to believe they were politically united at the end of the second millennium. Quote:
I still can’t find my copy of Peoples of Middle-earth, but I think it has more detail on the timing of the war – when Fornost fell, and possibly when Eärnur set sail, as well the time of year when the Witch-king vanished. -|- Quote:
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The Niña and Pinta were caravels; the Santa Maria was a small carrack. The distance by airplane from Spain to the Bahamas is about 4250 miles or about 6830 km, and Columbus did not seem to be in a tremendous hurry, staying in the Canaries until September 6. If he sailed from there to, say, the Bahamas, that would be over 3600 miles in only 36 days, and I don’t think they sailed hard at night for fear of missing a sighting of land: over 3-1/2 knots consistent sailing day and night; around 5 knots if they sailed about 2/3 of the distance during the day. And of course, those are straight-line distances (Great Circle routes) built from Google maps (a useful link): Columbus and his men did not sail in a straight line! Gondor probably maintained something of the old Númenórean sailing technology, so 5-8 knots during the day seems reasonable to me: after all, the Númenóreans had to sail from Anadûnê to Middle-earth on a regular basis, and the Great Sea is the Atlantic Ocean, more or less. Last edited by Alcuin : 02-04-2009 at 10:02 PM. |
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02-04-2009, 11:17 PM | #14 | ||||
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In a previous post Alcuin writes: Quote:
Could the advent of piracy point to the capabilities of Gondor? A few scenarios: 1) Having been severely impaired of their naval capabilities did naval technological innovations become abrupted? Could that have led to a reverse in the know-how and abilities of Gondor to produce newer and better ships? Is it perhaps then likely that Gondor did not set out with caravel-type ships, but less sophisticated and less costly ships like type of longships the Vikings used? These ships could not tack against the wind, but they were well-equipped with oars and could travel at great speeds. So did Gondor send an army that was transported in large ships, or did it transport itself in many fast longship-type vessels? 2) Necessity is the mother of innovation. Perhaps Gondor, being confronted with the threat of piracy, ushered into a productive era of ship-building and technology, enabling them to build caravel-type ships that could travel great distances with enough troops and supplies that they could stay out at sea for weeks and months at the time and arrive in a reasonably good condition in Lindon? 3) Or, as a third scenario, did Gondor receive technology for large-scale ship-building of caravel-type vessels, with the ability to sail in strong headwind and a strong hull for rough seas, from the south of Gondor, perhaps even inspired by the Corsairs. That would harbour some similiarities with how the Portuguese and Spanish received their know-how for making the caravel, leading to Christopher Columbus, Bartholomieu Diaz and Vasco da Gama's long, arduous voyages. The Portuguese pioneered the caraval, but they 'borrowed' the technology from the Italian-city states Venice and Genoa, whom in turn had received such sailing technology from the Middle East by way of trading and warfare. I'm thinking aloud here. Perhaps it's a mixture of all three. Any views on this? At least it's safe to say that if Gondor sent a fleet with vessels roughly similar to the caravel, they would need a stupendous amount of hardwood. Which would take many months to assemble. Unless a navy did not already stand ready when they decided to embark on the voyage northwards. It must have been a very tough call. An army being sent north would have to be the real thing, prepared and armed against a formidable enemy. So although smaller, speedier longship-type vessels would be preferable, they would hardly be able to move an entire army? And if Gondor did build a fleet of caravel-type vessels, large and plenty enough to support an army, it must have been a massively costly undertaking. Christopher Columbus did make the voyage in only 36 days, but he sailed with the trade winds, not against them. Unlike Columbus, Diaz who was the first to sail well past the Cape of Good Hope, spent many months tacking southwards, against strong Atlantic headwinds, to reach the Cape. Later still, Vasco da Gama chose not to stay close to the African shore, but go outwards with the southern Atlantic current, swiping by Brazil's coast, and going far south in a semi-circle, until he sailed eastwards again and touched upon land just north of the Cape.
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02-05-2009, 03:23 AM | #15 | ||
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Who knows? Some things in Tolkien are very precise: the length of the Númenórean calendar, for instance, is extremely precise. Some things don’t fit with the historical world we live in: “’taters” are New World plants, as are tomatoes, which is what Gandalf originally requested with his cold chicken instead of pickles in later editions of The Hobbit at Bilbo’s “Unexpected Party”. And pipeweed is tobacco, also a New World plant. Tolkien also describes Númenórean flying ships in The Lost Road. If we’re pinning down dates and chronology in Lord of the Rings, which are generally very precise, we can still run into trouble. Harry Goatleaf, the gatekeeper at Bree, sneaks out of the Prancing Pony after Frodo’s “accident” in my edition, but I understand that this is a leftover from an earlier draft, and that Harry no longer appears in the Inn in the newest editions. As far as technology goes, however, it strikes me that Middle-earth seems pretty devoid of innovation. The Dwarves are technological in many ways: hidden doors, neat toys, firecrackers, etc. The Second Age Dúnedain are technological; but all through the Third Age, it seems that there are few innovations: the barrow blades eventually used to kill the Witch-king do not seem “technological” so much as “magical”, and the Dúnedain either slowly forget what they know, or else lack the resources to execute using their knowledge. That is often a symptom of a declining society, and it happened in real world the West after the fall of ancient Rome, as well as in ancient Egypt, where the question of how the pyramids were constructed is hotly debated to this day, perhaps 4,560 years later. (For comparison in Tolkien’s world, 4,560 years before the crowing of Aragorn Elessar was the year II 1878, 5 years after the death of Tar-Minastir and 9 years after Tar-Ciryatan took the throne; Tar-Atanamir, then crown prince, would have been 78 years old. And it strikes me that we know these dates from Tolkien with far greater precision that we know real world dates.) Nothing seems to improve in Middle-earth during the Third Age, with the exception of the flowering of Gondor, which then fades again. I wonder if, in the context of the stories, that is a result of the Rings of Power in operation, slowing the march of Time, so that the presence of the Rings is a detriment to Men. Quote:
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02-05-2009, 10:02 AM | #16 | |||
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I'm less sure though if the Númenóreans used or even knew of longships. Yet if I were to bet on a culture producing these kinds of ships it would be one that was prone to naval warfare and interested in speed and the moment of surprise. The Vikings did as their ventures became more ambitious, their routes longer and their capabilities greater, produce longships that were especially useful in heading in towards shallow waters and bays where larger, wider ships had no possibility of getting in. The hulls would be elongated and narrow in construction, going high in the water, permitting the Vikings to quickly disembark from their vessels in an attack on land. That to me doesn't quite add up to the way the Númenóreans engaged in warfare. If there was a people who would sail ships like these I would bet on Corsairs. Quote:
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As early as 1488 Diaz had already ventured past the Cape of Good Hope, and he took the route southwards, hugging the coastline as he approached the tip. When Vasco da Gama nearly ten years later performed his wide, half-circle I find it hard to believe that he somehow took a chance. How would he know that the southern Atlantic current went south-west, south and then swung in sharply to the east? I think those nearly ten years of 'silence', with no recorded voyages to the tip of Africa, wasn't silent at all. Vasco da Gama's voyage was planned years ahead, and it was made in the intent of going all the way to India. Any sane naval plan would then be sure that the route he was to embark on actually led him to the right place. The navigator, who has never been recorded as setting out on any long expeditions earlier, probably spent his time practicing on the very voyage he later officially undertook Perhaps then there were several voyages in that silent timespan between 1488 and 1497, where indeed one of the missions might have come off course and gotten carried away by the south-western current, instead of the usual tacking along Africa's west coast. Any ships taking that route, south-west, would be come close to the Brazilian coastline, so I think the answer lies there. An unfortunate voyage or more led to an accidental discovery of Brazil as the Portuguese were making 'practice'-voyages to the tip of Africa and beyond
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02-06-2009, 12:04 AM | #17 |
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I think the Numenoreans probably developed square-rigged ships - like those of the Napoleonic era, sans cannons. They had thousands of years, and were very adept at seamanship. Ar-Pharazon's ship he took to Aman as said to be 'many masted'.
I wouldn't say their ships were exactly like those - but I think they may have figured out that technology and incorporated it. I think they had multi-leveled ships, so that people could be inside, and out of a storm.
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02-06-2009, 04:10 AM | #18 |
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I think medieval is the wrong period in history to look to for ideas about Numenorean and Gondorian fleets. Given his education and his interest in mythologies, Tolkien was probably thinking of ships more along the lines of what was developed in the Mediterreanean starting in Phonecia near the end of the Aegean Dark age, really taking off at the height of Athenian power and continuing well into the Roman Empire. Such ships would depend more on rowers than sails and in the later periods got to be quite huge.
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02-06-2009, 05:47 AM | #19 |
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Didn't the Númenoreans vessels have some kind of engine? I thought I remembered reading a quote of that nature somewhere. I can't remember where, but I remember thinking for a long time that the Númenoreans had more advanced ships then their descendants.
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02-06-2009, 05:49 AM | #20 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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We know that the Numenorean ships by the time of Downfall became quite huge - veritable sea-castles.
Quote:
Yet, unlike the abovementioned ships, the great ships of Ar-Pharazon also had oars: Quote:
I don't think in real history there are examples of HUGE many-masted many-decked ships also having oars. Quote:
It is quite possible that the technology of late Numenor had been irretrievably lost over time, and Earnur's ships were more alike to Pinta than the huge sea-castles of Ar-Pharazon. Look also at the numbers of Umbarian ships that Aragorn and the Dead found at Pelargir: Quote:
Edit: Earniel: no no engine, as far as I know. As I have pointed out, they had oars instead. Last edited by Gordis : 02-06-2009 at 05:53 AM. |
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