02-08-2006, 05:31 AM | #1 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mostly in the computer
Posts: 41
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Can the Istari be considered a 'race'?
Personally I am against this, but I have read a few Middle-Earth inspired RPGs and stories online which consider the Istari a 'race', like the Elves or Dwarves of Middle-Earth.
Do you consider 5 old men a 'race' or did Tolkien write somewhere in one of his books (which I don't possess, like the Histories of Middle-Earth series) about this topic? Thanks -Charis
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"My heart's right down to my toes, Mr. Pippin", Sam said, "but we aren't etten yet, and there's some stout folk with us. Whatever's in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf belly!" Some time later and a few dead wolf packs... "What did I tell you, Mr.Pippin?" said Sam, sheathing his sword. "Wolves won't get him. That was an eye-opener, and no doubt. Nearly singed the hair off my head!" |
02-08-2006, 05:36 AM | #2 |
Andúril the White
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Your thoughts
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I don't think I would consider them a race. Not a race of wizards, as it were. Of the "immortals", they're Maiar.
However, at the same time, would one define Balrogs into a race? I suppose so. They're Maiar, but appear as altogether unique creatures. Istari on the other hand look like old men. Gandalf, as an Istar, looked like an old dude, but he also looked like an Elf occasionally before his wizardly days.... Interesting question.
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Nothing can stop me now cause I just don't care. Last edited by Rev. Justin Timberlake : 02-08-2006 at 05:42 AM. |
02-08-2006, 06:50 AM | #3 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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As the LOTR now stands, the Istari is a little group of Maiar, not a race.
But in The Hobbit and in Tolkiens's early drafts for the LOTR, there was an earlier conception of the Wizards, as a race, or special people, or even as a "profession" of Men. It was recently discussed in another thread, in Books Forum. I copy it here: First the wizards were Men of a "noble profession" wielding sorcery and having a very long life. Gandalf and the Wizard King were from Numenor, as for the others, it was not said that they were Numenoreans, though perhaps ALL the wizards were supposed to come from there. See this quote from the LOTR ( also present in early drafts): Quote:
See this part of the LOTR prologue: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Much later, Tolkien decided they were no Men, but "angelic beings", Maiar, sent from Valinor on a mission to the ME around TA 1000. |
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02-15-2006, 11:48 PM | #4 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: School!
Posts: 107
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The Istari are certainly Maiar, but it's interesting to note how other Maiar (Balrogs, but also things like Vampires and Werewolves and other creatures mentioned only briefely) seem to be considered different "races". Personally, I'd say they're all really just Maiar (as far as race), but the ones that don't appear human tend to be shuffled out under most categorizations. It's interesting to see their development from Men though.
Incidently, the card game (by Decipher) gives all different branches of Maiar their own races. "Wizard" is a race, but so also is "Balrog." Sauron, however, is just a plain "Maia," though probably because they made him later and didn't know what else to call him (he's also listed as a "Minion," probably for same reason). I don't know if this is really related, but what about the watcher in the water? IIRC, it's a Kraken (a mythological water-beast-thing), but is it too a Maia? If not, what?
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04-24-2006, 01:42 AM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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In a book that I am reading, it lists the Istari in the "race" section.
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04-24-2006, 10:33 AM | #6 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
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Here is Robert Foster's definition of the Istari. Although his work is somewhat out dated, he is considered to be pretty accurate. Nowhere does he describe the Istari as a race, but as beings.
From the Complete Guide to Middle-earth Quote:
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