09-06-2006, 05:59 PM | #1 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 32
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Death to the seven sons of Feanor
they deserve nothing less, they are backstabbers, and full of deciet and hate. They have no respect for anyone except themselves.
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"But when wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf, and slew it with his hands and teeth" -Felagund, the greatest of the Noldo, and to walk Middle-Earth. Last edited by Tulkas : 09-06-2006 at 06:09 PM. Reason: more info |
09-07-2006, 12:11 AM | #2 | |
Salt Miner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: gone to Far Harad
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They certainly earned a long stay in the Halls of Mandos. Fëanor gets a permanent stay until the Dagor Dagorath is done.
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What of the actions fates of each of the Sons of Fëanor? Their father abandoned nine parts of the Noldor to the dreadful crossing of the Helcaraxë, so let us lay that iniquity at the feet of Fëanor himself. Amras, one of the twins, the youngest sons of Fëanor, is said by the Silmarillion to have lived with his brother Amrod in East Beleriand; but in Morgoth’s Ring, War of the Jewels and Peoples of Middle-earth, Amras had gone back aboard the ships to sleep at Losgar; repenting of his deeds, he considered returning to Valinor and accept the consequences of his actions. But when Fëanor sent Curufin to burn the ships, Amras died aboard the ship on which he slept. (See Peoples of Middle-earth, “The Shibboleth of Fëanor”) I suggest Amras was the least guilty of the Sons of Fëanor. Amrod the other twin did go on to live in south-eastern Beleriand. He died in the sack of the Havens of Sirion, shedding the blood of his kin. Caranthir the fourth son lived in Thargelion, the land beyond the River Gelion that flowed through eastern Beleriand. Caranthir was darkest in mood, quickest to anger, and he was haughty. But he established trading relations with the dwarves of Ered Luin, the cities of Nogrod and Belegost. He saved the Haladin, the Second House of the Edain, when Morgoth’s orcs were near to destroying them all, and came to appreciate the valor of the Edain. He was deceived by Ulfang the Easterling and betrayed by him in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Caranthir also died murdering his own kin in the Ruin of Doriath. Celegorm the Fair was the third son of Fëanor. He and Curufin were great friends of Aredhel, sister of Turgon of Gondolin. Huan was his hound, a gift of Oromë; but he and Curufin usurped the rule of Nargothrond from Orodreth, brother of Finrod. He kidnapped Lúthien because he was enamored of her and desired her for himself. He again kidnapped Lúthien after she freed Beren from Tol-in-Gaurhoth, and he tried to murder Beren. When Lúthien died and the Silmaril was sent to Dior in Doriath, it was Celegorm who stirred up his brothers to assault Menegroth, the second of the three Kinslayings of the Elves, and so he bears the greatest fault for the attack; Dior slew him. While he may have been the fairest of Fëanor’s sons, Celegorm seems to me the most evil. Curufin was the fifth son of Fëanor, and most like his father. His faults are only less than his brother’s in that he did not incite the violence. Celebrimbor, his son, repented of his father’s wickedness and remained in Nargothrond. Maedhros, the eldest son, was loved even by those who found fault in him. Were it not for the dreadful Oath, he would have become King of the Noldor. He wisely gave up his claim to the Kingship, and attempted to make peace with the rest of the Noldor. Finrod was his great friend who rescued him from Thangorodrim. When the servants of Caranthir abandoned Dior’s sons Eluréd and Elur*n in the forest, he sought for them, though he did not find them. But he led the assault upon the Havens of Sirion, the third slaying of Elf by Elf, and he convinced his brother Maglor to assault the camp of the Host of Valinor to seize the Silmarils. Maglor seems to me least guilty after Amras. He repented of all his deeds. After the slaughter at the Havens of Sirion, he fostered Elros and Elrond, “and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor’s heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath.” (Silmarillion, “Of the Voyage of Eärendil”) And when Maedhros pressed him to attack Eönwë’s camp to take the Silmarils, he replied, “‘If none can release us [from our Oath], then Everlasting Darkness shall indeed be our lot, whether we keep our oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking.’” (Ibid.) But in the end, he gave in to Maedhros, having not the courage of his own convictions, and with him killed the guards in the camp. So it seems to me that Celegorm and Maedhros bear the greatest burden because the instigated Kinslayings of their own, when they knew the outcome would be evil; of the two, Celegorm was the more evil because of his lust for Lúthien, his attempted murder of Beren, and his usurpation of the rule of Nargothrond. After them is Curufin, who was most like his father in body and mind, for his plotting and scheming with Celegorm: he was an active and willing participant. Caranthir was quick to anger; but he remained wise enough to learn, and to appreciate the goodness, honor and courage of others, as he did with the Haladin. Amrod seems to have been least active of all the brothers, and to have stayed away from the scene of the action; but he also did least to fight Morgoth, while Caranthir did more. Maglor understood and knew he had to repent, but it was too late for him when repentance finally came: the Silmaril he took he cast into the Sea, where it was lost forever, when he might have sent it into the West and gone himself for judgment; so he sealed his fate at last. Amras seems to me least evil: he understood his guilt early, and seems to have been ready to repent and return to Valinor. The Seven Sons of Fëanor did indeed suffer death, and perhaps Everlasting Darkness as well. Last edited by Alcuin : 09-07-2006 at 12:52 AM. Reason: added source of 3rd citation |
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09-08-2006, 08:44 AM | #3 | |
Sapling
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Yeah, so those two were naughty little elves, but at least their dog was cool! |
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09-08-2006, 12:09 PM | #4 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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And we can't really call the twins evil, as during the whole of the first age, they did nothing, until near the end, when thy had one last burst at furfilling the Oath. Of course, they failed.
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09-09-2006, 10:49 AM | #5 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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I also see a parallel with Maedhros' and Fingolfin's situation and that of Celebrimbor and Gil-galad. The true king is without a doubt Maedhros, even Fingon had the wisdom to differ to him when they made the Union of Maedhros for the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. And Obviously Gil-galad was but a stripling compared to Celebrimbor. Woe for the Feanorion indeed, yet mightiest of the Noldor they remained and the most noble line. PS. Haun was my favourite Maia (well, second to Olorin).
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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09-09-2006, 05:04 PM | #6 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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Do you think so? Celebrimbor may have been the greatest crastman of the Second age, but Gi-galad had the moe experiance of lookin after people, even if a small group. Plus, he would've had tips from his dad (whether it's Fingon or Orodreth?).
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09-09-2006, 07:28 PM | #7 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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09-10-2006, 02:49 AM | #8 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
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So, because he's older, Celebrimbor should get it then?
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11-05-2007, 12:41 AM | #9 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Though my reply to it still stands, was rereading this thread and I thought I should say that your reply was very well put together Alcuin.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
11-05-2007, 09:48 PM | #10 |
Hobbit
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what did they do?
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Adventures are nasty things;make you late for dinner! |
11-05-2007, 09:56 PM | #11 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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11-09-2007, 11:26 PM | #12 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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11-10-2007, 09:50 AM | #13 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
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In general causing bloody mayhem and murder.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
11-13-2007, 08:08 AM | #14 |
Enting
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They made Luthien miss her date with Beren
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The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! What does "LOL" mean? |
11-26-2007, 08:35 AM | #15 |
Sapling
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I don't think any of them can truly be called evil. Save for maybe, Celegorm and Curufin, since they seemed to really do those things on purpose, especially Celegorm. The others...they certainly did evil things, but that doesn't make them evil. They always seemed mislead and doomed to me, and very desperate...but not truly evil.
I wouldn't even call Feanor evil; he was insane and dangerous in the end, but evil? I think they were all mislead and "deformed" by Morgoth, but not evil in the way some humans are.
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Following the footsteps of a rag doll dance We are entranced Spellbound Now dance, dance, dance! |
11-26-2007, 09:52 PM | #16 |
Elven Warrior
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I'll skip the part about not being too quick to deal out death in judgment and go straight to the morality issue which I've already discussed here: http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=14146 Bottom line is I agree with Tulkas on the merits.
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01-04-2008, 04:17 PM | #17 |
Sapling
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I think that some of them didn't desirve to die.Like Maedhros and Maglor...
You should keep in mind that they were the gratest enemies of Morgoth... |
01-07-2008, 07:26 PM | #18 |
Enting
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Greetings
I must say that I am partial to Maedhros and Maglor. As for the others, I agree that they deserve death and torment and nothing less. There is a little bit of evil or wickedness in all of us. No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. What Maedhros and Maglor are guilty of is nothing compared to some of the things the others have done.
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Lady Belwen of Nargothrond |
01-08-2008, 03:25 AM | #19 |
Elven Maiden
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I believe everyone deserves to be happy, which is hardly a comment worth adding to this discussion. But besides that, while my memory is more than a little bit hazy I don't think Maedhros was evil. Count me as another of his supporters.
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03-26-2008, 11:37 AM | #20 | ||
The Ñoldóran
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Personally, I don't think any of the sons of Fëanor are evil. They were trapped by the Oath - and all the bad things they do come back to that in the end. I think calling anyone "evil" is far too simplistic, and in a way stifles discussion. The beautiful thing about Tolkien's characters is that there are so many of them that aren't completely "good" or "evil." After all, even Melkor was created by Eru, and even his evil deeds will eventually produce beauty (as is indicated by this quote from BoLT I): Quote:
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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