10-05-2001, 11:55 AM | #1 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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The Two Trees
Why couldn't Yavanna make two more trees after the first trees were destroyed? She wanted the light in the Silmarils to save them, but where did that light come from to begin with?
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10-05-2001, 01:15 PM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
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She said that there were certain things someone could only do once.(ie Feanor making the Silmarils.)
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10-05-2001, 01:46 PM | #3 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
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10-05-2001, 06:56 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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That was a reason in itself. She simply could not, it was something she could only accomplish once. Ever read or seen a bad sequel?
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10-05-2001, 11:48 PM | #5 |
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I think creating things is probably much more intuitive and improvisational for the Valar. Their creations are not so much planned as inspired. Therefore, recreating the Two Trees would be practically impossible. It's like accidentally deleting an essay you're writing for school and having to rewrite it. Sure, the second essay might be okay, but it will never be the same, no matter how hard you work on it.
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10-06-2001, 02:02 AM | #6 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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It could turn out better. You never know.
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10-06-2001, 11:21 AM | #7 | |
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Maybe they would be better, or maybe not. Still, Yavanna clearly says,
Quote:
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10-06-2001, 03:07 PM | #8 |
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In my opinion. she was unable to create new trees also because she was overcome with sadness and grief. When she planted the trees, it was when all was fair. After they were gone, she could not concentrate on her song without being distracted by the past majesty of the Two Trees.
Here, let's say you built the WTC single-handedly. It gets destroyed in an hour. Will you rebuild it just like that? Very bad example, but you get my point.
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10-06-2001, 05:10 PM | #9 |
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galadriel, making, makings, remaking are the terms we should use. The Valar could not create.
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10-06-2001, 08:36 PM | #10 |
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Ok, ok, ok, you're right, Inoldonil. But you know what I mean.
Good point about Yavanna's grief. I'm not sure if that's the only reason, but it's certainly a valid one.
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Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel |
10-06-2001, 08:45 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
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Of course I know what you mean, but it's far more fun to hobble over to you with a hunch in my back, poke you in the ribs with a stick and say 'that's not right! What are you doing?! You had better change that!'
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10-07-2001, 02:40 PM | #12 |
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I know what you mean. I love proofreading my friends' homework, finding a mistake, and bugging them about it. major ego boost
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Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel |
10-07-2001, 08:59 PM | #13 |
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They're at least partly works of art and creativity.
I mean, can Leonardo da Vinci paint two Mona Lisas? It just would not be the same. |
10-08-2001, 09:54 PM | #14 |
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Inability of Valar to re-create
The Silmarillion made it quite clear why elves and dwarves could not create certain items again. When Feanor created the silmarils he put a large part of himself in them. The same was true of the boats at the havens. Such items could not be re-made.
The history was more vague for the valar and mayar, but the same reasoning is suggested. When Sauron forged the One Ring, he put a great piece of himself into the ring. When the ring was hacked from his hand and taken away, his spirit was forced to flee the body. He could not make the ring again. I suspect this is why Yavannah could not re-make the trees. Another reason might be that "the song of creation" was in a certain "verse" when the trees were made. Perhaps there was a limited window of opportunity to make the trees. Once the song moved on, the ability to ever make their like again was gone. Grendel |
10-09-2001, 02:31 AM | #15 |
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Good point, Grendel. I hadn't taken into account Iluvatar's Theme and the Ainurs' Music. Some creations may not be repeatable after a certain time.
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10-15-2001, 09:27 AM | #16 |
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Perhaps the required resources were no longer there? Yavanna clearly had spent her recreative powers in this regard, and that might be true also of the primordial raw materials and energies that she used. Whatever these where...
This combined with the fact that the Trees lived on in a sense; with the making of the Sun and the Moon the world had taken a linear step forward and it might not be possible nor desirable to recreate new Trees, according to the themes of the Music. |
10-15-2001, 10:17 AM | #17 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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I thought that the Valar could not create, but she did create the Two Trees. Right?
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10-15-2001, 03:51 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
More views, please! |
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10-15-2001, 08:27 PM | #19 | |
The Insufferable
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Quote:
I think that each of the valar (and lesser creatures too) had a share of power. They can invest that power however the choose, but they must do so carefully or it will be used up (like what happened to morgoth) When ea is remade, those that served illuvatar will gain that power back in spades. |
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10-18-2001, 04:06 PM | #20 |
Elven Warrior
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within Ea
I think that each of the valar (and lesser creatures too) had a share of power. They can invest that power however the choose, but they must do so carefully or it will be used up (like what happened to morgoth) When ea is remade, those that served illuvatar will gain that power back in spades. [/B][/QUOTE] Is it prophesized that Ea will be remade after the Last Battle? |
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