07-04-2004, 08:28 AM | #1 |
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Arwen's Fate as a mortal
is to die, but my question/discussion point, is, "What exactly happened to Arwen?"
I know she eventually laid down somewhere in Lothlorien and died, and they named a mound after her (which seems to happen alot), but (and this is where the movie has me all fu....messed up) did she age normally? I read it last night, and I couldnt really make out whether she aged, or if she was in sort of limbo between Eldar and Edain. Also, when ol' Tolkien writes that she could not leave this world tilll all that she had gained was taken, did that mean that dad would have to sail and Aragorn Elessar Estel son of Arathorn would have to die, or is there more there? Discuss.......now!!
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07-04-2004, 08:42 AM | #2 |
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For Aragorn's sake, I hope she stayed young in appearance. Just imagine when he's in his early 200's... "Eh? What's that sonny? Yes - I know I look 10 times her age, but she's really almost 15 times as old as ME!! Hee-hee!!"
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07-04-2004, 08:47 AM | #3 | ||
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Re: Arwen's Fate as a mortal
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My view of Arwen is that she did not age physically. I do not see how her physiology could change only by choosing mortal life. it was her fate after death that was changed, or rather decided, and her opportunity to go West was lost. Which leads to another interesting question: What if she or her twin bros had been slain before they made their choice. What would their fates have been then? What was the default?
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07-04-2004, 08:49 AM | #4 | |
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Re: Re: Arwen's Fate as a mortal
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07-04-2004, 09:00 AM | #5 | |
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Re: Re: Re: Arwen's Fate as a mortal
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07-04-2004, 10:25 AM | #6 | |
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07-04-2004, 11:30 AM | #7 | |
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Still Arwen seems to me to have been Elvish in her attitude all her life, even through her marriage. Her bitter farewell with Aragorn when he is dying is revealing much. He is not grieved, for he believes that he will meet her again beyond the world, but she seems to be in despair.
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07-04-2004, 02:50 PM | #8 |
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I never really thought they had a choice. The choice was given to Elrond and Elros, whether to be counted among men or elves, and they each chose in turn. The children of Elros obviously didnt have a choice, and I dont think it is any different for the children of Elrond. Like Luthien, Arwen's fate was made by love. Luthien didnt have any mortal in her, but the grace was granted to leave the confines yada yada. I dont think that Arwen is any different, hell, they even look alike (and I think that somewhere it states that Aragorn looks a hell of a lot like Beren). It seems that the classification and fate of a person can be somewhat fluid, like molasses. It can be changed either way, but only under extreme circumstances and for a purpose or whatever.
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07-04-2004, 03:43 PM | #9 |
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Well Elros' children didn't have a choice because once Elros chose to be mortal, that would make all of his descendants mortal, but Elrond chose to be Elven, but it seems that since he was of both kindreds, but yet chose to be Elven, his children had to be given a choice. That's the way I always saw it anyway.
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07-04-2004, 07:37 PM | #10 | |
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07-05-2004, 01:22 AM | #11 |
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Beor, it is explicitly stated several places in LotR and in Letters that all of the children of Elrond were given a choice. But I agree that Arwen's fate was made by love (as Luthien's), if she had not fallen in love with Aragorn there would have been nothing keeping her in Middle-Earth when her father left.
Her likeness with Luthien was both in appearance and in the choice she made, to forsake life in the West in order to be with the man she loved.
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07-05-2004, 06:31 AM | #12 | |
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Still, I think it is bull[explicitave deleted] that they get a choice. A little unfair, eh? Oh well, I probably arent descended from Elros anyway...
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07-05-2004, 08:34 AM | #13 | |
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Even without her love of Aragorn, however, it was destined to be an unhappy choice for Arwen. Her parents and grandparents would be living in Valinor, but her brothers would be in Middle Earth since they chose mortality. Thus, the elven line of Elrond would die in Middle-Earth.
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07-09-2004, 10:13 AM | #14 |
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Arwen never understood mortality until the end when her husband died, and she felt her own mortality approaching. Therefore, she probably did not "age" physically. Until the time that Aragorn died she had considered the Numenorians "wicked fools". Facing her own death she achieved understanding of the inner turmoil that death presents to mortals. She found it to be a "bitter" pill to swallow. In begging her husband to linger and not sleep she finally saw the reason for the fall of the Numenorians and understood with "pity" the choices some of them made. Even that of Ar-Pharazon I would wager.
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07-09-2004, 03:43 PM | #15 |
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Death was a gift to men from Eru, wasn't it? As I've understood, most elves understood this. Didn't Arwen?
(I'm sorry, but it's a long time ago I read LotR. When Arwen chose to become mortal, did that mean that her fate was the fate of men and thus the same as Aragorns?)
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07-09-2004, 04:16 PM | #16 | |
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07-13-2004, 04:55 PM | #17 | ||
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Letter #153 says: Quote:
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07-14-2004, 07:25 PM | #18 | ||
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08-12-2004, 02:32 PM | #19 |
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I've just got one question about this. When elves choose mortality do their ears stay the same or become like men's?
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08-12-2004, 02:55 PM | #20 | |
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Have the elves pointy ears? There's a lot of discussion about that topic and it is not settled question... But if we suppose that they have pointy ears, then my response would be that they would remain the same. ... I'm not so sure about the light of their eyes and hair though
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