Why did Sauron need a ring?

[trolls' bane]

I don't think that there is a thread on it, but I remeber someone making a similar observation a while back. I'm just curious why Sauron bothered to forge a ring, and most of all, how that ring made him more powerful if he used his power to forge it. And if he used his power, how and why would he put it all in something that he must have known, even with his pride, could get lost? To sum up what I'm asking, why did he ever need a ring?

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

I don't think that there is a thread on it, but I remeber someone making a similar observation a while back. I'm just curious why Sauron bothered to forge a ring, and most of all, how that ring made him more powerful if he used his power to forge it. And if he used his power, how and why would he put it all in something that he must have known, even with his pride, could get lost? To sum up what I'm asking, why did he ever need a ring?

I think that Sauron's great power of the Ring was intentionally misinterpreted by Elves.
Sauron himself was not thinking that the Ring is very essential for his well-being.And Gandalf accidetially was slipping this bit of information:
"He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done" (Book I, Chapter 2),he is telling Frodo about Sauron.
So, destruction of the Ring doesn't automatically means the destruction of Sauron.As it said , that the designer and maker of the Ring could feel himself very much at peace, even with knowledge that the Ring is utterly destroyed.
Then comes a question:what this ring really is?
The most obvious abilities of the Rind is to establish mental connection between Sauron and the ring-bearer(any of the rings) and to dispatch the whereabout of it .
In this light I see the Ring as some kind of powerful bio-magnetic transmitter that had been made to establish a communication (a magically enchanted version of palantiri).
The Elves; upon realizing that in the final result of their eagerness to get in their craft skillfulness mixed with magic (this is what Annatar was giving to them -the knowledge of the magic) they stepped in the forbidden sphere of influence of the God, freaked out and made an excuse. They argumented the making of their Rings by desire to protect themselves and the Middle -earth from Sauron, who made a power-craving, totally evil device, which was aiding him in dominating of the earth and putting the God's creation in the darkness. All of it was a huge exaggeration, of course; putting blame on Sauron gave them an opportunity to wield their Rings, stopping the time, without being punished .The One Ring was made for the Elves inducement and for the Elves only. Unfortunately for Sauron, his plan backfired, making him with elves' help the Enemy #1 .

[Durin1]

There is a very interesting essay in the HoME series (can't remember which book) that speaks of the "shadow" that is still inherent in ME after the demise of Melkor. Basically the arguement is that Melkor put a lot of his power into the substance of ME, which not only diminished his own capabilities (Tolkien alludes to the reasons why Melkor is unable to assume any new shapes other than as a Dark Lord), but meant that he could have greater control of things for his own benefit.

On a much smaller scale, Sauron does likewise. The difference being that he concentrated his focus on the High Elves, realising their weaknesses; the "regret" as Tolkien puts it, and of them desiring a "paradise on earth" to still be able to enjoy ME. Sauron tempts the Elves in such a way that he gets them to transmit a lot of their own power into the making of the Rings of Power. Hence, when the One Ring is destroyed, so to fades all that was made with the 3.

Sauron took a calculated risk in creating the One. His prime motive during the second age is to diminish the elves as the hold the greater threat against him becoming dominant in ME. He tries to do this by controlling the wearers of the 3. However, his plan fails as soon as Celebrimbor is aware of Sauron. I believe that this must have been something that Sauron could not have envisaged.

Anyway, Sauron needed the ring to centralise his power to become Master of the elvess. He still accomplished some control through the gathering of the 9 and some of the 7. He dominates the will of the the Men who wear the 9 to become his servants. Sauron utilises the Ring to gather to him many Men who are easy to ensnare (as many are still under the "shadow"), along with other servants. Sauron also uses the Ring to corrupt the Numenoreans, which ultimately leads to their downfall.

The Ring is used as a controlling entity. When Sauron is cast down (but not out!) at the end of the 2nd Age, he is still able to recapture some of his strength of old but he needs his Ring,with all of his transferred power to assume a new dominant form. He is still able to gather masses of evil people, including the Nazgul, so he can still hold great military power, but he realises that he can only bring down or corrupt the last elvish strongholds through the capturing of the One.

Basically, Sauron did need the One Ring, but he would still have prevailed through old fashioned military power. It's just that he wants total victory.

[The Gaffer]

Good answer, Durin. Not much to add to that other than to emphasise that the Ring not only conferred vulnerability, but also a life insurance policy. Sauron, with Ring, was overthrown at the end of the Second Age, but was able to rise again because the Ring was not destroyed.

Olmer raises an interesting question about what happens when the Ring is destroyed; I don't see why anyone should know for sure one way or the other. Clearly, no-one in the story did. A point for another thread, perhaps.

The other aspect to this question is how the story needs the Ring, i.e. its metaphorical role as a symbol for technology, knowledge and power. Note that the people who had most power to resist the Ring were the ones who had least will to dominate others. Even the Elves wanted power of sorts.

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Note that the people who had most power to resist the Ring were the ones who had least will to dominate others. Even the Elves wanted power of sorts.

Yes, and that's basically one of the main themes of LoTR.

Sauron was the master at dominating other wills. He also had a penchant for power and control. He put all that and his malice into the Ring. The Elves also desired power and control, although of a wholly different kind. They want an Aman in ME; to be able to control the effects of Time. They make the Rings of Power for this purpose. Note that Gandalf states that the Rings (or the lesser Rings) can be "perilous" to mortals. i can see why.

Men were easily corrupted because they too desired power and control (although maybe not dominance) and Sauron gets his uses out of them. Boromir is a good example, although his intentions were honourable.

The Elves, especially during the 3rd Age when they kept very much to themselves, whilst resisting strongly, would have inevitably succumbed to the sheer military might of Sauron's armies. However, i believe that if one of the elves did manage to get hold of the Ring, it could have have dire consequences; not only because Elves were capable of "magic", but also because of the effects it would have had on the 3 and all that they had achieved with them It is testiment to the strength of character of Galadriel that she rejects the Ring when it is offered to her; since power, glory and lands was what she had desired all along.

Dwarves had unique characteristics (for good or bad) that aid them in their resistence. They cannot be dominated neither do they look to dominate others, being very insular people. In essence, Sauron was unable to corrupt the Dwarves when he gave them the 6 rings (it is said that Celebrimbor himself gave the chief of these to the Lord of Moria). About as much as he could achieve was to awaken lust for gold.

Gandalf, of course, resists Frodo's offer of the Ring. He knows he is way too powerful and the Ring would have an adverse affect on him, probably creating a new Dark Lord.

Which leads to the "hour of the halflings". They were exactly what was required: not too strong, simple-minded and (up to then) care free. They don't seem to have a "iwanttoruletheworld" complex. The right ingredients to destroy an all powerful ring!

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Durin1

..Sauron tempts the Elves in such a way that he gets them to transmit a lot of their own power into the making of the Rings of Power.
His prime motive during the second age is to diminish the elves as the hold the greater threat against him becoming dominant in ME. He tries to do this by controlling the wearers of the 3.
The Ring is used as a controlling entity.
When Sauron is cast down (but not out!) at the end of the 2nd Age, he is still able to recapture some of his strength of old but he needs his Ring,with all of his transferred power to assume a new dominant form.

You are basically echoing my thoughts , but putting them in so well-versed order, that the ring is a devise (not living thing) which is directing a life-force of the ringbearers to the creator, aiding him in acquiring of his diminished physical body and helping him to dominate through the control of the others.
I'm glad to find at last that somebody sharing my point of view!

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

...its metaphorical role as a symbol for technology, knowledge and power.

I think you said exactly what Tolkien tried to convey to us:the road to hell paved with good notions.The advancement in the knowledge and technology
brings to the power which is putting the possessor of it on one step higher above others.The power corrupts, and the absolute power corrupts absolutely. You can't play God without facing the consequences.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Olmer

You are basically echoing my thoughts , but putting them in so well-versed order, that the ring is a devise (not living thing) which is directing a life-force of the ringbearers to the creator, aiding him in acquiring of his diminished physical body and helping him to dominate through the control of the others.

Although the Ring is a devise, it is partly a living thing as Sauron poured part of himself into it. There was a thread on this theme 'Was the Ring Evil' but it was closed as we were just going round in circles.

[trolls' bane]

I understand perfectly. It helps having friends who have read those other books I can barley find, and whenever I do I either spent my money already, I don't have it, or no one thinks I need it, or they buy me some non-fiction book instead, or the room is too big and I begin to imagine the floor is tilting, or I get worried when the ground shakes whenever someone walks by... .
Anyway, thanks . I'm still not quite clear on some of these things, but really, I must get those books. Maybe I'll buy them off the internet. That way the floor stops tilting .

[Attalus]

I do not think that the Ring was able to communicate with Sauron, directly. My take on Gandalf's statement ('He believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done'.) is that he awoke, was sort of surprised to find himself still alive, and started to re-form a body for himself. He would assume that the Ring was gone, as said, since that is what he would have done, and further assumed that his diminishment was the result of this, not just the slaying of his physical body. Then, after he had been able to re-establish himself and his Nine servants, first at Dol Guldur, then at Barad-dûr, he learned from Gollum that the Ring had not been destroyed, at all. My reasoning is based on the fact that if Sauron had known that the Ring still existed all along, he would have been searching for it the whole time, not that hasty, rather burlesque search by the Nine described in "The Hunt for the Ring." Granted, it would have been hard to find Gollum in his cave in the Misty Mountains, but the Orcs there surely had some inkling (ha!) of his existence. Someone in Barad-dûr who heard of a seemingly invisible creature preying on the Orcs would have gotten suspicious, eventually.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

He must have known before that because there was no other reason to find Gollum.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

He must have known before that because there was no other reason to find Gollum.

Gollum wasn't caught because of a search on Sauron's part. He was caught spying around Mordor.

Wreched fool! In that land, he would learn much, too much for his comfort. And sooner or later, as he lurked and pried on the borders he would be caught, and taken - for examination.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

But they still question him on the where abouts of the Ring.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

But they still question him on the where abouts of the Ring.

Of course they did. They asked him what he was doing around there. Eventually, under torture, he said something like, "I was looking for the Precious." The Precious, what was that? *twist* "A ring." Why would you risk prying into Mordor for a mere ring? *twist* "The Precious isn't just any ring. It is magical." *Exchange significant looks* Hm, magic Ring? Maybe Number One needs to hear of this. Enter Sauron. The rest is all too easy to imagine.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I don't think that Gollum would confess to anyone what the Precious was. If he knew that they could find it he wouldn't tell them.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I don't think that Gollum would confess to anyone what the Precious was. If he knew that they could find it he wouldn't tell them.

Well, Gollum himself didn't know that the Precious was the Ruling Ring, never having heard of it before, doubtless. I don't think, but know, that Gollum told that he had a magical ring that gave long life, but it was stolen from him, and under torture like Sauron could dish out, I would, too.

Yes, alas. Through him the Enemy has learned that the One has been found again. He knows where Isildur fell. He knows where Gollum found his ring. He knows that it is a Great Ring, for it gave long life. He knows that it is not one of the Three, for they have never been lost, and they endure no evil. He knows that it is not one of the Seven, or the Nine, for they are accounted for. He knows that itis the One. And he has at last heard, I think, of hobbits and the Shire.

That's Gandalf talking, in "The Shadow of the Past." Gollum sang like a canary.

[Lefty Scaevola]

In the first age Morgoth's strength and being were disapated through comtrolling the wills of vasts armies of orcs and men, until he was weakened enough to be confronted directly and deafeated in person.
I think the ring was a way for Sauron to control innumerable wills without disapating his power and existance.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Attalus

Well, Gollum himself didn't know that the Precious was the Ruling Ring, never having heard of it before, doubtless. I don't think, but know, that Gollum told that he had a magical ring that gave long life, but it was stolen from him, and under torture like Sauron could dish out, I would, too. That's Gandalf talking, in "The Shadow of the Past." Gollum sang like a canary.

But in UT it says that before Sauron left Mirkwood he had servants searching the Gladden for it. That was why Sarunman agreed to attack.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

But in UT it says that before Sauron left Mirkwood he had servants searching the Gladden for it. That was why Sarunman agreed to attack.

Of course he did. Sauron knew where Isildur fell, as Gandalf says in the passage quoted above, Gollum didn't tell him that. He certainly knew that Isildur was carrying the Ring, since he had made it impossible to throw away. I doubt if Gollum knew who Isildur was, at that time. He knew nothing of the history of the Precious until his capture by Sauron and then Aragorn.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

And the Nazgûl knew that halflings used to dweel on/near the Gladden, so Sauron to would have known.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

And the Nazgûl knew that halflings used to dweel on/near the Gladden, so Sauron to would have known.

We don't really know who were the Nazgul, except 3 of them which were Numenoreans. Only if they were the ancestors of the Rohirrim, the people who lived between the carrock and Ered Mithrin.