05-24-2003, 03:28 PM | #1 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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The Debate of the Valar: Finwe and Miriel
Reading through Morgoth's Ring, in the section on Finwe and Miriel, I was going through the debate of the Valar, and this assertion struck me: Mandos says, "But I say unto you that the children of Indis shall also be great, and the tale of Arda more glorious for their being ....When he that shall be called Earendil setteth foot upon the shores of Aman ye shall remember my words." Now, this seems to me to be remarkable, but most of all because of the reference to Earendil. Of course, if it were not for Finwe's remarriage, there would have been no Finrod Felagund or Nargothrond, and no Galadriel. But, why would this have to do with Earendil? Then it hit me. If Finrod had not saved Beren's life in the Tol-in-Garhauth, there would have been no rescue of the Silmaril, and no Earendil. Do you think this is what Mandos meant? Opinions appreciated.
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05-24-2003, 05:11 PM | #2 |
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What exactly are you getting at, Attalus? I think the reference to Eärendil is quite simple. If Finwë hadn't married Indis, there would have been no Fingolfin, no Turgon, no Idril Celebrindal - and no Eärendil.
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05-24-2003, 06:17 PM | #3 |
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Yes Finwe and Indis's marriage brought through many great people, as Artanis says culminating in Earendil.
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05-24-2003, 06:53 PM | #4 |
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Ah, that's the other thing that was nagging me. Thanks for the replies.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
05-25-2003, 02:28 AM | #5 |
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Interesting. At first, I was also thinking the line of children leading from Indis' children. Now I'm thinking also about the Silmarils and how much grief they brought ME. Lets put aside the simple fact of succession for a moment. If it were not for the problems and strife, would Earendil have made that journey?
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05-25-2003, 12:17 PM | #6 |
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I'm not exactly sure from what angle you are asking this, Ruinel, but I think, if I were Earendil, I would have taken the thing back to Valinor just to keep Maedhros and Maglor from killing anyone else over it. Of course, the fact that it allowed him into Valinor and gained the aid of the Valar against Morgoth was the main result.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
05-25-2003, 06:12 PM | #7 | |
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05-27-2003, 11:38 PM | #8 |
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I always thought of it the way Artanis did - the line of Eärendil's mother, Idril: Finwë+Indis --> Fingolfin --> Turgon --> Idril Celebrindal --> Eärendil, but that's also true about Finrod saving Beren - neat thought. Finrod saved his cousin's daughter's husband-to-be.
I just wish Finrod hadn't died in the process but what a heroic act.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 05-27-2003 at 11:43 PM. |
05-27-2003, 11:57 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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05-28-2003, 12:02 AM | #10 |
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Great movie!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-28-2003, 12:05 AM | #11 |
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That it was. Mel Brooks ROCKS!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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