09-16-2013, 02:06 AM | #1 |
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Nazgûl Eyes
The confrontation between Éowyn and the Witch King is one of my favorites scenes in the Lord of the Rings, as likely for many of you. In the past day or so, I noticed something I’d not before.
In the confrontation on Weathertop with Frodo, Aragorn, and the hobbits, there is no mention of any “gleam” in the Lord of the Nazgûl’s eyes. Only Frodo can see their eyes, and only when he puts on the Ring. Otherwise, they are all specifically said to be invisible to mortal sight. Aragorn probably knew more about them than any other Man, being instructed not only by Elrond, his foster-father, but also by records and tales left by his ancestors, the Northern Dúnedain, who fought a series of wars against the Witch King of Angmar before their kingdom succumbed to him. Aragorn described the Nazgûl as if blind in human terms, seeing only things that “cast shadows” into the netherworld in which they were trapped. To reinforce this idea, when Sam put on the Ring high in the cleft at the top of Cirith Ungol, he saw the orcs passing by as hazy shadow-figures. Yet when Gandalf confronts the Nazgûl Lord in the Gate of Minas Tirith, Pippin can see the Ringwraith’s eyes in the emptiness between his shoulders and his iron crown. And when the Witch King fights with Éowyn, both Éowyn and Merry can see his eyes, which gleam just before he tries to smash her head – and Merry stabs him. The Witch King’s eyes are clearly a prominent feature in an otherwise (apparently) featureless creature. But there’s no mention of his eyes on the road to Rivendell – except for Frodo, first when he wears the Ring on Weathertop, then later at the Bruinen when he can see them because he himself is slipping in the wraith world. Even as the Ringwraith leads his army out of Minas Morgul, his eyes are unseen while Frodo, Sam and Gollum hide from him. So I’d like to pose a question: Do you suppose the Witch King’s eyes were only visible during the attack on Minas Tirith?There might be some reasons to think so.
I propose that Sauron arranged for the Lord of the Nazgûl “peek out” from the wraith world to see the normal world in order to execute his attack on the city. That, I suggest, is the reason his eyes could be seen then, but not before; and why none of the other Ringwraiths’ eyes could be seen. What says the Entmoot? (My apologies: I can’t stay to discuss it myself: I have to work. But I hope this sparks a merry debate!) Last edited by Alcuin : 09-16-2013 at 02:10 AM. |
09-16-2013, 07:35 AM | #2 |
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Lot's of interesting ideas Alcuin. Thank you!
Nice reminder that JRRT mentions the "beefing up" in a letter. I vividly remember the concept from the movie, and didn't recall if it had any basis in Tolkien's writings. So overall - yes, I think what you say is very plausible. Otherwise, from a literary standpoint - the eyes probably make that moment more dramatic, and also give Eowyn a nice target. Interesting thought about the limitations of blind military leadership. Good reason for why the Third Age was not known as "The Age of th Nazgul". We often think of the Nazgul as being very powerful - but they also have their limits. Perhaps they were most to be feared by Frodo - as a ring-bearer. It put him in the position of trying to operate on "their turf" - where they were much stronger.
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09-17-2013, 01:51 AM | #3 |
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Interesting - I'll have to think about it...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-18-2013, 09:16 AM | #4 |
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Interesting point.
Considering the Ringwraiths weren't bumping into doors and walls left and right throughout the books, they had to have some way of seeing, even if only by say, echo-location. Possibly their other senses are hightened enough to compensate. They could perceive the blood of the living at all times, I seem to recall. And the first time we 'meet' them in the books, they snuffle as if trying to smell the Hobbits. Or perhaps everything real casts a shadow into the shadow world which the Ringwraiths can then see in some way. Frodo and Sam spent only a short time in the netherworld, so it would have looked very peculiar and strange for them. The Ringwraiths have spent millennia in it, so by that time they may have become very astute in descyphering the shadows around them and seeing more than vague shadows. So I dare say the Nazgûl are only blind in the way they don't see the same way as us or don't use their eyes the same way as us. (Maybe that's why they're always in black, if you can't see colours how can you pick clothes with matching colours and avoid looking like an idiot that can't dress himself? Even evil has standards, you know.) As for the specific instance of the Witch-king's visible eyes, yes, I do think they would only have been visible at the battle of Minas Tirith. It could be that this was part of Sauron's upgrade of the Witch-king, or perhaps the Witch-king himself, as most powerful of the the Ringwraiths, had some control of what he physically manifested. If I try to determine what I would find scarier: an empty harness with a iron crown, or an empty harness with an iron crown and floating eyes in between, I think I might go for the latter. Whether he saw anything through them is another matter. |
09-18-2013, 02:50 PM | #5 |
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Maybe he was just wearing a a cool pair of magic shades, or something else cosmetic, to look more impressive while doing the army commander bit.
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09-19-2013, 11:46 PM | #6 | |||||||
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I have foolishly kept up with the thread in its beginning, and I’m too sick this evening to work.
In Fellowship of the Ring, “Knife in the Dark”, Merry and Aragorn discuss the vision impairment of the Nazgûl: Quote:
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I cite these to say this: We know the Ringwraiths couldn’t see well. (Khamûl was the worst; perhaps he was already deep in evil even before receiving a Ring of Power.) We can safely assume no Ringwraith saw better than Sam or Frodo could in these instances, perhaps not even that well. It’s hazardous to stray from the texts. Once in Entmoot, I surmised that Éowyn might have reminded the Witch-king of the Númenórean “girl he left behind”. I will dare to surmise again. Think about the blindfold we use for a game like Blind-man’s Bluff. I envision (pardon the pun) the Lord of the Nazgûl using just such a cloth, but with a twist – instead of blinding his sight, it enabled him to see into the world of the living, a suitably perverse twist on the notion of a blindfold. All that would be seen in the “real world” would be his eyes. Here is a detail of a fine depiction of Donatello the Ninja Turtle to make plain the point, though I imagine that more of the Witch-king’s face appeared between and around his eyes. |
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09-20-2013, 03:42 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
I love the Moot! Maybe just as Sauron was slowly "pulling himself together" from when he first got disembodied, in the same way the Nazgûl, who are tied into Sauron, were gaining more abilities?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 09-20-2013 at 03:45 AM. |
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09-21-2013, 11:24 AM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
I think you are right about them seeing in a different way. They put a blind eye on Frodo and Co. because they did not want to find the Ring for Sauron. So, they put on a big show of looking and not seeing. Otherwise nothing indicates that they are without eyes. Probably they can't tolerate bright light ( as Gollum) an shielding the eyes with the pulled down hoods. Quote:
But the history of Witch-King of Angmar suggest that he was able to rule by himself a successful kingdom, making a smart strategic and political decisions without Sauron's guidance. I would contribute it to an enhanced ability to see things with own eyes. Besides, as Alcuin said, how successful will be a blind military commander?
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10-08-2013, 06:12 AM | #9 |
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12-14-2013, 01:43 PM | #10 |
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Hmm... just because they can't see well in the material world might not mean they don't have eyes? Or perhaps the Witch King is extra special and has eyes - only no one noticed them in book one.
And maybe - maybe his eyes only 'gleam' when he temporarily focuses them on the corporeal world. It seems he does this just before he is about to clobber someone with a sword, so that would be a time when accuracy is more important - whereas in the thick of battle or while flying around menacingly, he might just rely on the shadows in the spirit world as a good enough guide?
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12-26-2013, 03:16 PM | #11 |
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Ask King John of Bohemia, KIA 1346.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
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