08-16-2005, 06:17 AM | #1 |
The Original Corruptor
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Suicide
I did a search, but couldn't find a thread that dealt with this topic exclusively.
I was prompted to contribute to a thread at another forum, which was about suicide. What follows is my story. Feel free to discuss further. Suicide. I came very close once. Some background: About 4-5 years ago, I was at a house party in which LSD was involved. That is referred to by myself and my psychologist as the Turning Point. Afterwards, my thought processes were structured in a different way. I became a philosophical decontructivist, and began to question everything. My thoughts were constantly racing. I'm not sure how my bipolar came into this, but I'm sure it factored in somewhere. My theory is that the LSD triggered a hypomanic phase, which in turn produced the motivation to learn. I quit my B.Com (which I had no interest in) and started a B.A in Philosophy. But I had questions, and the answers were not coming quickly enough. The frustration of the self-imposition of a restrictive curriculum led to depression, which destroyed that initial motivation and I gave up the B.A. But the existential vacuum was ever present. I don't recall how it happened, but the next hypomanic phase ensued and I started a B.Th, which was more focused on my interests (at least, on initial investigation). My social life ceased to exist. I put everything into my studies. I bought books from overseas (most of which I haven't even read). I was on the net constantly doing research. And I achieved. During a telephonic conversation with one of the professors in Pretoria, he assured me that I had attained the highest grades out of all the students enrolled that year, in that module (which was a foundational module), and he expressed his "enthusiasm" about working with me during my doctoral studies. My ego was boostly greatly, as you'd imagine. That had been a goal of mine--not only to acquire knowledge--but to "beat everyone else". That was the last assignment I sent in, ironically. The subsequent segments of that module were skewed greatly towards students possessing god-belief in some or other form (but predominatly Christian). I suffered because of this. And grew frustrated again. And on came the next depression. Eventually, a few months later, I went hypomanic. I started the net research again; I read loads of books; I participated in many online debates. All of this was driven by the need to address the existential vacuum that besieged me. I deconstructed and deconstructed. Eventually, the crisis culminated in what my psychologist defines, my Core Irrational Belief: Existence Is Fundamentally Meaningless. Okay, so that's the background. I wasn't depressed at this. In a strange way that I now cannot recall in any other way than knowing that I made a point of being aware of the feeling, I felt enlightened. I watched people, seemingly oblivious to the "idea" that they are a bunch of quarks and leptons, just like the air around them. I lost all emotion, because I understood emotion as electrical impulses in my brain, and I no longer felt the need or desire to indulge in them, thinking of them as a "weakness". "Enlightened", I felt superior. But I was still conflicted. I felt like I was privy to some important info that most others were unaware of, but at the same time, according to that info, nothing mattered when conceived on a descontructive, base, fundamental plane. Hence, my very real suicidal thoughts. It was not so much a need to escape suffering or frustration. I viewed my existence or lack thereof in a very cold, clinical way. I could kill myself at any moment, and be neither relieved nor guilty about it. In a place like that, thoughts relating to family members and friends do not exist. If I remember correctly, I was of the position that any "guilt" or apprehension I might feel before and regarding my suicide, was completely and utterly pointless. I viewed the sorrow and anguish and anger of these family members and friends as mere electrical impulses. They had just as much emotional weight as my own thoughts. Which was nothing. So I could very easily have killed myself. I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Who cares about a meaningless existence that continues despite the lack of my own, after all? But then, one day, I decided that I wanted to hold onto the existence of my mind. I was filled with the idea that if I exist (my mind; my personality; what makes me, me), I could use and abuse the world in any way I wanted. No thought was "immoral" or "despicable". My mind was opened to anything and everything, and I felt powerful. Enter hypomania. Anyway, it was very obvious soon after that that I lived in a society, and because of this, if I decided to act on any particularly "frowned upon" thought, my situation would very probably change for the worse. I developed a faux-conscience which conflicted with my newfound physiological hedonism. And so I integrated back into society. And as the years moved on, that core irrational belief fell further and further into my subconscious. My faux-conscience turned into conscience, and my figurative box of unconstrained acts turned into a set of morally justifiable acts. I also grew incredibly intellectually lazy (amongst other things). Now I'm like the majority of you humans. |
08-16-2005, 06:54 AM | #2 |
Elf Lord
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IMO, existence is fundamentally meaningless, if you are looking for meaning in an objective sense. However, it is an infinite fractal of significance at the subjective level.
The trick is to try to enjoy the ride and be nice to people. Gotta take care of yourself, too; if you're bipolar, getting an insight into those sorts of trigger moments is a life-saver. |
08-16-2005, 09:33 AM | #3 |
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You know, I have to find this interesting since I have struggled with many of these internal arguments myself. Only I have a tendency to start doubting the existence of anything. I mean, how can one really be sure of anything. Is it any more logical to take for fact the information presented by your senses than it is to believe in myths, legends, or books that were written thousands of years ago. When it comes right down to it, how can we know that we can even know anything.
If we are to continue to live in this universe, we have to accept its existence. We have to believe that the world around us is really there. We have to take that on faith. Now, believing in it doesn't make it true. On the flip side, not believing in something does not make it untrue. Just because we can never know the truth for sure doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (Incidentally, assuming that we have the power of reason, there has to be such a thing as *truth*. If nothing is *true* then the fact that nothing is true would be truth. Truth must exist in some fashion.) End rant for now |
08-16-2005, 09:54 AM | #4 | |
The Original Corruptor
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Quote:
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08-16-2005, 11:30 AM | #5 |
Elf Lord
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Slightly OT:
One my greatest disappointments came after having worked 8 years at my so far longest job then they fired me because I had a bad epileptic fit, unfortunately at work. And since I am the way I am I said to the personnel manager straight out that she was ruining my life. Having a job and being useful is very important to me. Not only in the sense of having an income but also having friends (which apparently I didn't have all that many at that place). Then, being very depressed, off and on I began thinking "I've done my bit I don't need do anything more.", but of course that would never work because in this day and age not only do you have to have a job to remain economically afloat and sane, you must think about the future. Six months later I was enrolled in a yearlong computor-course. Not a very productive one at that, in my opinion, and just a way for my former employer to get rid of me once and for all which didn't endear them to me naturally. Well, now I'm employed, off and on, at the local police station as a cleaner. Not a very good job, timewise, because it's only up to two days a week. So I'm hoping to be employed in the new police station which will be finished in february-06, just a mere six months away. Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 08-16-2005 at 11:32 AM. |
08-16-2005, 11:45 AM | #6 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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....life is but a dream......Star Trek
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
08-16-2005, 07:10 PM | #7 |
The Lovely Hobbit-Lass
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That's 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat', Spock. (That's the best bit in that whole movie-- ST:TUC, I mean.)
Wow, Andy. I found your post most interesting. I find myself at times struggling with thoughts similar to those mentioned here ("Life is meaningless," "If what's real isn't really real, than what's real," etc.). I used to lay awake at night and ponder stuff like that (golly, I only just remembered that... Glad I don't do that anymore ). I've never been really close to commiting suicide, although I've thought about it at whiles. Wouldn't it be great to die and go to Heaven and have done with this old world? I tell you, life gets harder every day. Besides that, I'm a natural quitter. "To die is gain," the apostle Paul said. But, he added, "to live is Christ." And that is the biggest thing that keeps me going sometimes. Life is not meaningless, a fact which I'm very happy about.
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It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year! |
08-16-2005, 10:33 PM | #8 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I
definitely overpaid for my carpet. --Woody Allen--
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
08-16-2005, 10:37 PM | #9 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Quote:
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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08-17-2005, 01:48 AM | #10 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
It's good of you to lighten things up a bit.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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08-17-2005, 02:07 PM | #11 |
of the House of Fëanor
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I had suicidal tendencies for years; even as a five-year-old I tried offing myself by eating a bottle of baby aspirin! For real. I've been hospitalised for self-inflicted injuries & intentional overdoses, but somehow I managed never to get "51-50ed", you know? I always lied convincingly enough about how my injuries had happened. Thankfully, the suicidal tendencieds subsided over time, though; now I haven't felt that way for like 5 or 6 years, at least. It's a good thing, too, otherwise by now I'd definitely be dead. My prior attempts were nothing to shake a stick at, let me tell you.
But I'm happy now! For real. Funny how life changes, how we change with time...
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
08-17-2005, 04:16 PM | #12 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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And we here at the Moot are happy to share your changed outlook. Stay positive.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
08-17-2005, 10:51 PM | #13 |
"The Bomb"
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Definately stay positive. When I was about 7 or eight I remember contemplating suicide, looking down at the driveway with my head out my second-story bedroom window. Now I couldn't remember for beans what I had been so depressed about, so that goes to show you how worthwhile it would have been.
I also remember running away once, around the same time. I lived next to a doctor's office then, and I walked over there, and sat down out front with my back up against the sign, so I couldn't be seen from my house. Then I got hungry and marched home to demand a sandwich and say that I was running away. So my mom laughed and made me a sandwich (which made me think, "how dare she laugh!") but yeah, I got bored and returned before dinner. THe moral is that any depression or anger is a passing phase. In kids it's obvious, and most people think that it's because their conflicts are always so minor. But to someone of that age, what could be a bigger problem than spilt milk? And at our age, what could be a bigger problem than the loss of a friend? If we weren't multitasking, keeping ourselves anxious with a million reminders running constantly through our minds, we'd accept and overcome the conflicts as fast as the kid would. That's what I believe. And so next time suicide starts looking good, broaden your perspective, imagine the infinate variety of bad things that other people might be facing at that moment and be humbled, and think of how much you make other people's lives good. Just for their sakes, hang on to life. I've had to go through that thought process on a few occassions. EDIT: Clinical depression is different. Either way, bottom line:
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 08-17-2005 at 11:30 PM. |
08-17-2005, 11:16 PM | #14 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Quote:
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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08-17-2005, 11:44 PM | #15 |
"The Bomb"
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Yeah, that is much different Were you diagnosed with clinical depression, if you don't mind me asking?
When a person is five years old and thinking about killing themselves, it's almost never because of a seemingly unsurmountable obstacle in life; it usually points to some sort of chemical imbalance or something along those lines that will keep on affecting you throughout life and throughout many different moods. Still, whenever I encounter a problem, I naturally ask myself "what are you gonna do?" And if an answer like "run away!" pops into my head, then I know the problem can't be solved but I instead try to make it more bearable for everyone else somehow. Again, it's ultimately my ties to people (no matter how thin or distant) that keep me among them. My mind shifts from "oh crap what am I gonna do" mode to "alright, let's do something" mode, and that constructiveness keeps me occupied enough for at least a while and distracts me from the problem until I've lessened it in some small way. I might very welll be wrong, since I couldn't know for sure, but I think even people with mental illnesses can think along those lines if they tried.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
08-18-2005, 12:40 AM | #16 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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whether or not life is meaningless is something better left to a later time and date... you'll get there one way or another i've been at alot of lows (and it got better) and a lot of highs (and it got worse) but i always tried to think of the people around me... whether it be someone at the 'moot, someone at the coffee shop or someone you like to hang around with, the meaning is the day to day stuff... we give each other meaning
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-18-2005, 11:15 AM | #17 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Lotesse, you are right on the money. At least you know you have rage and yet have the courage and fortitude to keep it in check. Years of therapy might help you get rid of it but if you are of strong mind and character you can save the money.
....Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death... -Auntie M.- |
08-18-2005, 03:30 PM | #18 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Thanx, Spock! Yeah, I'll save my money; I have no love for therapists and psychologists in general, I consider a great majority of them to be snakeoil salesmen and con-artists. Not all of them, but definitely a great majority. I've experienced this phenomenon first hand, that's where I get off saying this.
Plus, I was graced - blessed or whatever, with a natural fortitude and strength of character that has kept and will keep me going for a lifetime. I'm fortunate in that regard, definitely.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 08-18-2005 at 03:32 PM. |
08-18-2005, 06:19 PM | #19 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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You mean to say that I've been buying snake oil all these years for nothing?
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
08-18-2005, 06:30 PM | #20 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say 'for nothing', Spock, I mean snake oil is fine for some people! Snake oil has its market. I mean, what works for one person may not work for another, yada yada yada...
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
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