07-28-2003, 09:40 PM | #1841 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
*sigh* I gave you the logical proofs already. *is too tired to continue today*
|
07-28-2003, 09:44 PM | #1842 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
No, I'm talking about formal logical proofs. You've given me your opinion, which is different. I think there is logical thinking behind your opinion, but one cannot formally, logically prove what you were claiming to prove. That was my point.
**EDIT** - I don't mean to say we're getting into formal logical proofs here, just that what you're claiming can't be "logically proved", altho you can hold a logical opinion on it. ps - I think I know why you're tired -- put on your skivvies and run around!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-28-2003 at 10:02 PM. |
07-29-2003, 12:11 AM | #1843 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Did anyone else find that totally confusing! I need Anduril!
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
07-29-2003, 12:20 AM | #1844 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I think I'm gonna run off to see a movie with my husband - see if Orli still looks like an elf in "Pirates" - maybe I'll speak more clearly tomorrow!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
07-29-2003, 12:49 AM | #1845 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
I'm gonna have to agree with Lief here-
In this claim he's not saying that he can prove his religion is true by logic; he's saying that since different religions say mutually contradictory things they cannot all be true. Further, I don't think is he claiming that any one of them is (logically) necessarily true; they may all be false ( as we atheists believe); for that matter they may all be false and atheism may be wrong as well- the Truth may not yet be known, or indeed it may be Unknowable.
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
07-29-2003, 01:26 AM | #1846 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
Lief of course I understand where you are coming from - that doesn't make it any better and I still find christians to be offensive (when they are promoting their religion and still find them to be arrogant. i already understood that Christians felt their religion to be absolute truth, hence the arrogance).
Of course, where do the different denominations of Chrstianity fit in? It's all the same to me, but not to Christians I suppose. Christians believe that Christianity as a whole is the superior religion, but what about denominations? Do Catholics believe that their wey is right and Protestants will go to hell or what? Just curious. Yes, I know this is a religion topic so of course there will be Christians here promoting thier religion :P I was just saying what I found irritating in general, you know ? Like in the past there have been really in your face irritating Christians on this board. Luckily they have since left....... Religious Sigs are annoying - but I just ignore them Of course if I just met someone and they were an 'in your face Christian," that would be a big turnoff. Glad I don't really know any of those ppl. I know several devout Christians, but they don't bother anyone with it - as it should be. Unrelated topic: I accidently ate pork today! now i really feel sick. I never kept kosher, but I always stayed away from pork, ham, bacon, and other pig products - but mainly because Pigs have always been my favorite animals - and they are also the smartest animal next to primates and dolphins i believe - yes smarter and better than stupid dogs and cats. In over 15 years I have managed to stay away from eating pigs - i am sure that I never have, until now that is grr stupid free sample - should have told me. er that sort of related to religions - i broke kosher (not that i ever kept to the other rules, not even sure what they all are)
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
07-29-2003, 04:11 AM | #1847 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Oh, too bad about the pork, Hobbit - it's one thing to decide to do certain things, but a bummer if you decide to not do something then unintentionally/accidentally do it.
wow, I better go to bed - I'm having trouble wording things tonite! "Pirates" was really fun, tho - I kept expecting Orli to say "Aragorn! Over here!" Jonny Depp was hysterical - a perfect mindless summer movie.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 07-29-2003 at 04:13 AM. |
07-29-2003, 08:55 AM | #1848 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
Catholics don't beleive that all Protestants go to hell....although you will always get extreme people in all faiths saying that NO other way is possible to to go to heaven....I don't deny that I know some protestants and catholics who think this...I don't, and the Church doesn't teach that...I know, I know, all the persecution during the Reformation suggests otherwise...but I think that was just a matter of the people themselves who didn't like the fact that the Church was splitting up not the actual doctrine of the Church which has never changed since it started |
|
07-29-2003, 10:23 AM | #1849 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Posts: 621
|
Hello everyone. If I posted this in the Happy Thread, then everyone would snuff me, so I want to post it here: I am happy cause I learned a lot about Jesus and His Father in Heaven! And I made a comitment to Him to remain pure! "For those who are pure in heart, the King shall evermore favour them."
__________________
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
07-29-2003, 01:36 PM | #1850 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
but on a related note i assume christians (and probably other religions) cant accept the idea that all religions and much philosophical thinking perhaps reflects not so much some literal and highly specific truth but actually a broader reflection of something more innate and harder to grasp. Many religions are similar enough in their scope and ideals to be kind of a human reflection of something beyond our grasp. So we create these religions to allow us to sort of tap into that source the best way we can. Perhaps the divine is beyond our comprehension and we strive always to translate it to our limited understanding. Perhaps religion is simply a vehicle to a much greater truth that we cant ever know.
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
07-29-2003, 01:48 PM | #1851 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Silme... no one is going to snuff you in the Happy thread, quit spamming.
Sorry about the pork, HOBBIT. I don't eat pork as a rule either. __________________________________________________ There is no way to logically prove any belief system. BUT... {Buddhism is the only exception to the following, that I know of.} #1) all religions believe that they are the true religion of their god #2) all sects of religions believe they are following the correct doctrine of their worship of said god #3) all religions believe that other religions are false. #4) all religions pray to a god, not necessarily the same god. #5) all religions believe they pray to the correct and true god #6) all religions have been involved in wars for the sake of their religions, though their own doctrine forbids the killing of other people. #7) the people of a religion believe that through faithful adherence to the doctrine of their religion and religious leaders, they will reap a reward after they die, and the nonbelievers (other religions) will either be given a far lesser reward or will suffer upon their death for their lack of faith in the true god. We can say that the truth of a religion is a perspective held only by the followers of that religion. Because no religion can be held universally correct, therefore all religions are false. Last edited by Ruinel : 07-29-2003 at 01:51 PM. |
07-29-2003, 03:59 PM | #1852 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Silme - good for you! You won't regret that commitment - it's well worth it
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
07-29-2003, 04:10 PM | #1853 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
07-29-2003, 04:24 PM | #1854 |
Dead
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the floor, under the table, just to your left, your other left
Posts: 1,486
|
Wow. This thread is really long.
I just wanna say, Yay for Religion! I'm gonna be a theologist when I grow up. Are the majority of people in this thread Christian?
__________________
How to Survive the Sillmarillion I thought that Alcohol was just for those with nothing else to do. I thought that drinking just to get drunk was a waste of precious booze. But now I know that there's a time and there's a place where I can choose To walk the fine line between self control and self abuse. "Lacerations make complications, but welts go away in a day." |
07-29-2003, 04:25 PM | #1855 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
For example, I think that the vast majority of Tolkien fans that have read the Sil think would say that Fingon is Gil-Galad's father, but you and I, Ruinel, know that that was something that Christopher Tolkien wrote, and Tolkien's last word on the subject was that his father was Orodreth. Does majority opinion make something right? No. *stops to sing "Gil-Galad was an Elven King, of him the harpers sadly sing, the last whose realm was fair and free, between the mountains and the sea ...."* A religion either does or does not reflect the truth; right? Whether or not it is universally thought to reflect the truth is irrelevant. I agree with your opening statement, tho - "There is no way to logically prove any belief system." That's why we need to use other methods of evaluation. And I also disagree with your #6. How can this be right? If you look into it, as far as Christianity at least, it's "no murder", which is different from killing in war situations and even self-defense situations.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
07-29-2003, 04:29 PM | #1856 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
07-29-2003, 04:31 PM | #1857 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
07-29-2003, 04:34 PM | #1858 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
07-29-2003, 04:34 PM | #1859 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Let's see - on this page, Arien and Silme and I are Christian. Lief Erikson is too - he's on the previous page, I think. I remember your name, Katt, but I haven't seen you for a long time - have you been gone for awhile, or do we just post on different threads?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
07-29-2003, 04:40 PM | #1860 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
The point I was making is that all religions claim to hold the REAL TRUTH. If they are all different, then that claim is false. Therefore, all religions are false and not true. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Whats on your Bookshelf? | hectorberlioz | General Literature | 135 | 02-12-2007 07:26 PM |
The Order of The Blue Flame Discussion Thread | zavron | RPG Forum | 9 | 01-01-2003 02:13 PM |
The Dreams Discussion Thread | zavron | RPG Forum | 7 | 01-01-2003 02:03 PM |
The Conspiracies! (TOC vs. DC!) Discussion thread | Duddun | RPG Forum | 11 | 12-27-2002 04:19 PM |
Y2K: a "what if" thread | Darth Tater | General Messages | 10 | 03-04-2001 03:06 PM |