07-24-2003, 02:54 PM | #1781 |
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I added more to it. I had originally forgotten your 'weee!' which I found hilarious.
BTW... I'll repost my edited question, b/c I don't think you saw it... "errr... just currious IR, but you are saying that you are Italian and that people believe Italians to be liars? (first I've heard of this if that is what you are saying)" |
07-24-2003, 02:55 PM | #1782 | |
Elf Lord
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"...no such thing as a 'friendly, warm, happy, healthy homosexual relationship". Friendly, happy, and warm simply describe the subjective feelings of the person involved- if someone (honestly) tells you "I'm happy", to reply "you think you are happy but you're really not" is nonsensical- you may be mistaken about the cause of your happiness, but to say "I'm happy" (or sad, angry etc.) is to make an existential statement. "Healthy" of course depends on the meaning that you put on it - if it means "emotionally healthy" than it fits into the category above. So it doesn't boil down to a difference of opinion- you are making a statement about an objective, checkable fact. If we apply the same standards to homosexual and heterosexual couples, what you are saying is simply wrong- you yourself concede that gays may be in a happy relationship (and warm and friendly fall under the same heading). Now, you may say that it is inherently harmful but to get a disinterested observer to agree with you that it is harmful in this life you have to show evidence. Evidence against your argument?- well, after gay marriage was legalised in Canada ( "Proud to be Canadian" )- there were umpteen examples of couples who had been together for years joyously coming forward to proclaim their love and devotion (sniffle) This is the same argument religious people use against non-believers- "You may think you are quite happy and content with your disbelief, but really you're miserable because you're lacking faith" "No, I actually feel fine ." "No, you don't- you can't- you're not in tune with God's Creation!" And of course it works equally (wrongly) the other way- "You say you have faith, but of course you're just afraid to face reality without a crutch; your belief is just a cover for your own lack of self-worth" So, just accept the fact that many of us sinners are actually quite happy in our sins, and will live our lives and and die contentedly in a state of delusion- though of course we will undoubtedly receive our just desserts in the Hereafter. [
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 07-24-2003 at 02:56 PM. |
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07-24-2003, 03:32 PM | #1783 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Just off the top of my head (and in no particular order!), I count among those I like the best at Entmoot: YOU, Ruinel; SGH; Sheeana; Lizra; Cass; Starr; Eruviel G; Artanis; BabyK; Graymouser; IRex; JD; Lief; Gwaimir; Wayfarer; Coney (that's just a sample - I'm sure I've missed several - please just put it down to my aging brain!) Now of those 16, only 4 are Christians! So maybe it's just my particular group of friends that are more non-Christian, percentage-wise. Really, if you look at it, it's more a factor of age - I just have more in common with the older Mooters. So no, Ruinel, I don't think you're obnoxious. You're one of those that I have a great affection for. (I think you're a bit "hasty" sometimes, but I don't see any meanness behind it - that's just your personality. We're all different, and it would be terribly boring if everyone were like me *yawn*) There's really only 2 people that I think have been obnoxious, and they're both guys. And actually I like both of them, too, but I think they just need to improve their manners. "Obnoxious" was probably too strong of a word. (and no, I'm not telling who they are!!!! If anyone asks, my response will be "I have said that I will not comment on this.")
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 07-24-2003 at 08:20 PM. |
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07-24-2003, 03:33 PM | #1784 | |
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07-24-2003, 03:46 PM | #1785 | ||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 07-24-2003 at 03:48 PM. |
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07-24-2003, 04:11 PM | #1786 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And I won't address the rest of your post until you answer my question to you about divorce, which I asked first
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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07-24-2003, 05:18 PM | #1787 |
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of course fun is the whole picture silly. If you don't enjoy life, then what?
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07-24-2003, 08:17 PM | #1788 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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For goodness' sake, I'm NOT saying to not enjoy life; I think there are many, many things to enjoy in life! I am saying that there is more than simple happiness to life. For example, eating ice cream might make you happy. Should you jump on some little kid and take away his ice cream cone if you want it? Should you eat ice cream all day long, every day? Is it a bad thing for you to buy an ice cream cone for someone you love, even though it means you get only 2 scoops yourself and not 3?
If fun is the whole picture, then Frodo and Sam were idiots.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
07-24-2003, 08:42 PM | #1789 | ||||
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07-24-2003, 08:44 PM | #1790 | |||
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by the way, about the whole christian majority thing on the moot. perhaps the right way to put it is that christians seem to have a plurality here if not a majority. and its the christians that you notice because they tend to proclaim themselves so.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 07-24-2003 at 08:46 PM. |
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07-24-2003, 08:49 PM | #1791 | ||
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07-24-2003, 09:59 PM | #1792 |
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Christian majority! Get off! You are right IR..the Christians just make alot of noise about it! Be sure and read my posts in the old gay thread, if you want to hear "the rest of the story"
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07-24-2003, 10:28 PM | #1793 | |
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07-25-2003, 02:23 AM | #1794 | |
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Does anyone else agree with Arien and me (grammar police - note correct usage of "me") that there is more to life than grabbing as much happiness for yourself as you can? And let me just add that altho sin may be fun for a season, the joy that comes with Christianity is even better! Of course I still sin - it's a daily battle - but when I succeed in overcoming temptation and NOT sinning in a particular instance, the joy I have because of that is greater than the "fun" I would have had in the sin, and there is no downside at all. I think that many non-Christians just don't realize the incredible joy that Christians have in their relationship with God. You guys are all Tolkien fans here, right? You know how sometimes the sheer beauty of a particular passage in his works will just hit you so hard it's almost physically painful? It's the same way with God for me, and for the Christians I know that are really committed - the incredible beauty and holiness of God, and the depth of His love for us, just overwhelms me sometimes when I think about it. So yes, sin is fun for a season, but giving up sin is even better!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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07-25-2003, 07:54 AM | #1795 |
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Depends on how you define happiness! Aren't you doing it (grabbing the happy ) because being a good Christian makes you happy?
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07-25-2003, 10:28 AM | #1796 |
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I am so happy today! I just relized I'm now an Elf Lord!!!
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07-25-2003, 11:51 AM | #1797 | ||||
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07-25-2003, 11:53 AM | #1798 | |
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07-25-2003, 12:10 PM | #1799 |
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yes, well if we were all brainwashed then we would all see the joy, eh?
how is it any better than a cult (which is what christianity started out as). Of course you could probably "find joy" in anything if you put your mind to it. Plus whats all this about the great joys of christianity? Christians seem to be very outspoken in this topic... no direct quotes here but I also see a lot of "christianity is the best religion" I know I have said this before, but sorry to burst your bubbles, it isn't. There is nothing really special about it either. It is an old outdated religion, like others - used and abused mainly to control the people and to explain the world around them (early ppl). You could derive as much joy as you all do from christianity from any other religion - and well, for that matter just about anything. For example, maybe playing my instruments and music gives me as much joy as christiantiy does for you? I'm willing to accept that, why can't you? We all don't want to be part of the Christian club. Do you really think that it is superior to say Judiasm, Islam, Budhism, Hinuism, Greek, Roman, Mayan, Aztec religions and cultures? How so? They are all pretty much similar. And their members could all feel the same 'joy' and all and they all 'felt and knew in their hearts' that their religion was correct. To christians: they were all wrong and you are correct? I don't think this way. We all don't need to go to be preached at or believe in some bogus stuff and hinder our lives with religion. It is a good part of life culturally, but it is never a good idea (imo) to let it run your life. The non-christians on this board obviously are perfectly happy and have joy for other things - and do not find joy at religious services. Why do christians automatically assume that their joy is superior that we are all missing out unless we share in their joy? Joy and happiness are the same wherever you see them! I of course never intend to offend, but I sometimes do that, don't I
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07-25-2003, 12:48 PM | #1800 | |
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What is more offensive? The person who tells others that they 'think that many non-Christians just don't realize the incredible joy that Christians have in their relationship with God' to a non-Christian? (I know that you don't mean to offend, RĂ*an.) Or is it the person who points out the truth, that Christian joy is not superior to other joys, nor religions? I know that it is a difference of opinion. RĂ*an, you get a lot of happiness from your faith, and that is fine. I'm not telling you that you are misguided. If it makes you happy, then by all means, continue it to your dying day. But don't tell me that what I believe to be truth is wrong. To understand that we are without a protector, a god, is uplifting and liberating to me. To know that we stand on this planet beholden to each other only, is a great comfort to me. |
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