America the Proud?

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
The fact remains that LePen was voted into the run off and the French were forced to vote for Chirac. You may argue that he was not almost voted in in the final round but how many people voted for Chirac who didn't even want him?

Oh c'mon! Chirac might not have had a big support, but his support was bigger than LePen's and all the other presidential candidates's. Come to think about it, the majority of the Americans didn't even want Bush for president.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Oh c'mon! Chirac might not have had a big support, but his support was bigger than LePen's and all the other presidential candidates's. Come to think about it, the majority of the Americans didn't even want Bush for president.

We got by the Electorial College - always have and always will unless the Constitution is changed. The STATES elect the president. That way - even the smallest states are represented in the election. if it wasn't like that - then all the candidates would have to do is worry about the most populated states. I agree - I didn't want Bush - I wanted McCain - but Bush won the primary.

I didn't say that Chirac's support was or wasn't larger than LePens - but because of LePen being runner up - the French were forced to elect Chirac.

By the way - it used to be that the "runner up" was made vice President in the United States. Usually the President and Vice President were of differnet parties. Now the President choices his running mate. If it was the way it used to be - Bush would be President and Al Gore would be Vice President.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
So what is a leftist whiner called in Europe?

A BBC journalist


I have a question for everyone. I don't think there are many French mooters, but I was wondering if someone could come up with a few things France has to be proud of? I couldn't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are some. I'd like to be able to think some good things about a country I like, and which is my nearest neighbour. I so rarely hear anything nice about them

[Artanis]

I associate France with culture. I think French people should be proud of:
Paris. This city is filled with beautiful architecture.
The Declaration of the rights of the Man and the Citizen of 1789.
The principle of the separation of the powers.
Very friendly, helpful and hospitable people.
French movies.
Famous French persons:
Claude Monet. Pierre-Auguste Renoir. Paul Cézanne.
Russeau, Voltaire, Montesquieu, Descartes.
Victor Hugo, Emile Zola.
Marie and Pierre Curie.
To name a few.

[Spock]

Artanis you have put it very well. We may disagree on politics and issues but from an historical view point the world owes much to France. Hey, just pastries and wine alone would be enough for me! Seriously though, the art and culture are part of me even here in the USA.

[Hasty Ent]

[I have a question for everyone. I don't think there are many French mooters, but I was wondering if someone could come up with a few things France has to be proud of? I couldn't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are some. I'd like to be able to think some good things about a country I like, and which is my nearest neighbour. I so rarely hear anything nice about them

the problem here will be when to stop listing wonderful things about France....

first and foremost -- the best wine in the world
no culture, imho, has contributed more to fine dining: Escoffier, Brillat Savarin, and countless others
CHEESE! milk's leap into immortality
I couldn't care less about fashion, but who could deny Coco Chanel's importance
I'm not crazy about the movement, but accept the achievements of the Impressionists
FILM! -- Truffaut, Renoir, Godard, etc etc etc

I could go on, and on, but won't.

I only wish I could come up with a list like this for the US...

our wine? only fair, and best when a French winemaker/vineyard is involved
fine dining? our contribution has been fast food franchises
cheese? starting to slowly change, but the horror that is sprayed out of a can will be hard to overcome
fashion? maybe we're ok here, I know nothing about clothes
film? there are a few independent filmmakers out there, but they're dwarfed by the presence that is mainstream Hollywood

[HOBBIT]

Hmm, want to start a list of negative things about the french ?

[Hasty Ent]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Hmm, want to start a list of negative things about the french ?

I've been thinking about this, and all I can come up with are negative elements that exist in every community, and none of them are bound up in ethnicity...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Artanis
I associate France with culture. I think French people should be proud of:
Paris. This city is filled with beautiful architecture.
The Declaration of the rights of the Man and the Citizen of 1789.
The principle of the separation of the powers.
Very friendly, helpful and hospitable people.
French movies.
Famous French persons:
Claude Monet. Pierre-Auguste Renoir. Paul Cézanne.
Russeau, Voltaire, Montesquieu, Descartes.
Victor Hugo, Emile Zola.
Marie and Pierre Curie.
To name a few.

First - I don't like french films. The Principal of Seperation of the Powers - was America.

As for what we have given the world - we gave them the Delcaration of Independence, and the Constitution. Everyone talks about their Constitutions and everything - look at WHOSE THEY are based on.

We have given many things to the world - including movies, the assemblyline, tv, the incadescent lightbulb, the phongraph.

Also - American food is NOT fastfood. We have a lot of GOOD food that we have given the world - it's just never thought of as American. Food doesn't have to be pretigious to be good and yes - I like a lot of French food and I cook Frecnh food. But you Americans who think America hasn't contributed anything to the world - might want to actually look at the facts. Of course other countries have things to be proud of - but so does America. America isn't some backwater country like some people like to think. We have our great painters and poets. And we do have our great films too.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
First - I don't like french films. The Principal of Seperation of the Powers - was America.

As for what we have given the world - we gave them the Delcaration of Independence, and the Constitution. Everyone talks about their Constitutions and everything - look at WHOSE THEY are based on.

Hey! I was listing good things about the french. They raised from a society where the king had absolute power, into a democracy. That's something to be proud of. Does it matter if they were not the first country to do that? NO! They embraced the ideas of freedom, librety, fraternity, and made them theirs.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Artanis
...French movies.
Famous French persons:
Claude Monet. Pierre-Auguste Renoir. Paul Cézanne.
Russeau, Voltaire, Montesquieu, Descartes.
Victor Hugo, Emile Zola.
Marie and Pierre Curie.
To name a few.

I like many French films. And Victor Hugo rocks!

However, Marie Curie was born in Warsaw, Poland, as Maria Sklodowska, which makes her Polish, not French. She moved to France, at the age of 24, to study physics and mathematics. She later became the first female lecturer and head of Laboratory at Sorbonne Univ, in Paris.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Artanis
Hey! I was listing good things about the french. They raised from a society where the king had absolute power, into a democracy. That's something to be proud of. Does it matter if they were not the first country to do that? NO! They embraced the ideas of freedom, librety, fraternity, and made them theirs.

That's fine - but you stated it like they were the country who invented that concept.

As for my pointing out things about America - that was directed at Hasy Ent who said ....

I only wish I could come up with a list like this for the US...

our wine? only fair, and best when a French winemaker/vineyard is involved
fine dining? our contribution has been fast food franchises
cheese? starting to slowly change, but the horror that is sprayed out of a can will be hard to overcome
fashion? maybe we're ok here, I know nothing about clothes
film? there are a few independent filmmakers out there, but they're dwarfed by the presence that is mainstream Hollywood

- I just forgot to state that. They indicated that their were very few things to be proud of in America - except fast food. I would like to point out to hasty Ent too - that many US wines beat out some of the best wines in France. France does not have a monopoly on wine.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
France does not have a monopoly on wine.

They certainly don't. I'd like to add that NZ has bet them out as well with our Sav Blancs.

(Hasty Ent, when I come over, I shall have to bring you a bottle of wine to sample. Oh, and we've got some pretty interesting cheeses as well. How does a white rinded soft cheese rolled in volcanic ash sound?)

[LutraMage]

You know, I guess you would call me a pro-American - indeed, I think I would qualify as someone who genuinely and constantly stands by you Yanks (despite some of you're more questionable habbits) through thick and thin, but I have to say ONLY AN AMERICAN WOULD POST THIS THREAD!

You wouldn't find a person from any other nation asking 'what should our country be proud of' or even 'should our country be proud?". It's kinda like you guys need people to keep remembering the things you did right - perhaps to make up for some of the things people think you did wrong (mostly, but not exclusively, unjustified).

Let it go. Just live your lives according to the best tenets of American culture and principals and you will find that you can be proud of all you do. (Geesh, maybe I've watched too many Holywood movies)!

[jerseydevil]

LutraMage - Actually you miss the point of the thread. The point of the thread was "with our history - do we really have anything to be proud of (such as slavery and the treatment of the indians and things). If you read the book - it's all blame America - even in regards to Christopher Columbus who wasn't even Amercan

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by LutraMage
You know, I guess you would call me a pro-American - indeed, I think I would qualify as someone who genuinely and constantly stands by you [Americans*]

Thank you for the kind thoughts, LutraMage.




*FYI: we don't all like being called 'Yanks' just like you don't like being called 'Limeys'.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Thank you for the kind thoughts, LutraMage.

*FYI: we don't all like being called 'Yanks' just like you don't like being called 'Limeys'.

I was going to thank him too - and mention the "Yanks" comment.

[Sheeana]

Well, you know, "Yank" is easier to type/say than "American".

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Well, you know, "Yank" is easier to type/say than "American".

Well, that makes it all better then. I am a firm believer in laziness.

[Lizra]

Does anybody still call the french "frogs"?