Religious Knowledge Thread

[TinuvielChild]

The Book of Shadows is a Wiccan's major reference book and log, where you write all the information you gather on various subjects, plus rituals, etc. It's a very personal book, usually written with a special pen called the "Pen of Art", and some people write it in a different language/script, although that makes it a little difficult to read. While that's good if you're trying to keep it secret, it's not that good if you're trying to find a certain piece of information in a hurry!

The pentagram is sort of like the cross for Christians and the Star of David for Jews. The five pointed star represents the elements of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. There's usually a pentacle on the altar.

Hope that helps, GW; if not, find someone with more knowledge and experience!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Ah, so it's kind of like a "Wiccan diary"? Is the name "Book of Shadows" taken from any older tradition of another religion, to the best of your knowledge? And, just to be completely annoying, why is it called the Book of Shadows?

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by TinuvielChild
The Book of Shadows is a Wiccan's major reference book and log, where you write all the information you gather on various subjects, plus rituals, etc. It's a very personal book, usually written with a special pen called the "Pen of Art", and some people write it in a different language/script, although that makes it a little difficult to read. While that's good if you're trying to keep it secret, it's not that good if you're trying to find a certain piece of information in a hurry!

The pentagram is sort of like the cross for Christians and the Star of David for Jews. The five pointed star represents the elements of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. There's usually a pentacle on the altar.

Hope that helps, GW; if not, find someone with more knowledge and experience!

That's fascinating! So that's probably where Robert Jordan got the idea for the different types of weaves of Saidin and Saidar, correct?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes, I believe many magic/magicks in various fantasies are based on old Pagan or neo-Pagan beliefs.

[Lief Erikson]

It's probably a good source for ideas.

[TinuvielChild]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Ah, so it's kind of like a "Wiccan diary"? Is the name "Book of Shadows" taken from any older tradition of another religion, to the best of your knowledge? And, just to be completely annoying, why is it called the Book of Shadows?

Yes, exactly! And I have no idea where the name comes from; probably because since the "crime" of witchcraft was punishable by death in the 1600s, midwives and others who would have had a book like this would have had to keep it somewhere out of sight, or "in the shadows". That's pure speculation/educated guess, mind you. Don't worry, there's nothing annoying about a thirst for knowledge and understanding of other religions!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It wasn't around in the 1600's; see the links from Coney and myself.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Before Current/Christian Era.

Okay thanks. I wonder why the dates are truncated one decimal place?!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

No problem.

-pretends not to have read the second part...-

[BeardofPants]

Guess I'll just have to invent a conspiracy theory then!

[TinuvielChild]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
It wasn't around in the 1600's; see the links from Coney and myself.

Nonono, I meant that the people like midwives, who would have had books of knowledge/herbal lore/etc, would have been thought of as "witches", and therefore had to keep things secret.

[TwirlingString]

I think some book with things like wicca have been found, but they aren't very easy to translate becomes the people writing didn't know how to write and therefore didn't write a lot down...they WERE peasents. Plus if it was in the 20th century why was the church trying to stamp it out around 476 AD and even then it wasn't a new thing? (I actually got out of the chair and checked To Ride a Silver Broomstick)

[TwirlingString]

The reason it says that it started about 50 years ago is that its practice stopped begining illegal in 1952, it was already there, you can't ban something thats NOT THERE. The types practiced in America are thought to be newer because most of the really old wiccan clans are cliquish. its handed down by wrd of mouth so they don't really have any idea of how old it is.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by TinuvielChild
Nonono, I meant that the people like midwives, who would have had books of knowledge/herbal lore/etc, would have been thought of as "witches", and therefore had to keep things secret.

Ohhhhh, I see. D'oh!

I highly doubt the Church was trying to stamp it out back then. I definitely doubt that they would have been giving attention to any group in particular, as they'd really gotten a foothold only 100-200 years ago, and they were probably still establishing themselves as the state religion.

I don't believe so; it says that it was started by a specific person (Gardner, I think) around 1940; that's ten years before it was legalised, according to you. Why would they just say it started ten years before, instead of saying that it started ages and ages ago?

Wicca was, more or less, created by Gerald Gardner around 1940. Where he gained his inspiration from is still up for debate, but that still comes mostly from modern sources, liberally sprinkled onto what we think pre-Christian traditions were like

Why the myth in the first place? Well, it lended credibility. To say that you were part of something that was several thousand years old gave a degree of credibility. Perhaps, the founders thought that people would ignore it if they knew that it was "new."

[TwirlingString]

First off ley me say you didn't pick a very good source. Second...Gardener only started the Gardener sect, we told you there were a lot of them and Gardener definately isn't the oldest...especially since one of the sects was started by one of the Salem witches.

http://www.dreamwater.net/silvercobweb/history.html

May I present a less agnostic source?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Gardner called it Wica or 'Wicca'. The religion of modern Witchcraft.

Looks to me like even your site agrees. Of couse, I'm not saying there was no practice of forms of Witchcraft at all before then; I am merely saying that Wicca was not around until then. Other magick/magic-practicing religions were certainly in existence, but not Wicca. I'm sure that Wicca has preserved some of the traditions and rituals of older days, but I do not believe that it is the same thing, in essence.

"Agnostic" would seem to me the best source, as it would be less biased towards either side. Also, Coney's most certainly seemed Wiccan to me. I find it a lot easier to believe Wiccans saying that it wasn't true, than I do to believe Wiccans saying that it was.

[TwirlingString]

The practice was there just not the name. It didn't NEED a name.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Not in the same form as it is today, right?

[TwirlingString]

A man named Gerald Gardner was the first to admitt to being a practicing witch

and I haven't seen Coney's source yet. It probably didn't exist in the same form as today because there are admitted newer founded sects. I don't think we're going to stop arguing any time soon because we don't have a dictionary definition of wicca and my dictioonary's definition of witchcraft is "dealing with the devil". Just because something changes a bit doesn't make it still not the same. Both Hinduism and Buddhism underwent major changes and that didn't mean they still weren't hinduism and Buddhism. Most probably the newest part of wicca is covens, but solitaries are more common anyway.

[TinuvielChild]

TS, mate, hate to break it to ya, but on this subject, GW's right. Paganism was around before, true; that's what Wicca is based on, but Wicca itself didn't come into being until Gerald Gardner, in the 1950s.