Do we still need a space program?

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
But Gaff this is a pipe dream.

We can agree on that; and I wouldn't advocate scrapping NASA at all. What I'm trying to argue is that the "vision" of putting a human on Mars will lead us to spend lots of money which would be far better spent on other things, both within NASA and elsewhere. It may also be based on a flawed assumption of "trickle-down" benefits from the research.

There is another pipe dream here, which you acknowledge: the attraction of space exploration. I understand that, and share it. It may even be the most important benefit to us as a species (i.e. a collective sense of adventure).

Thinking about that feeling, one of the things it gives is tremendous confidence in humanity's technological capabilities, which I would argue is misplaced. From this comes the sense that we can solve all of our problems with technology. While this may be true, if we don't manage to redirect the collective political will in the right areas, your great- (x N) grandchildren are not going to be around to enjoy their holidays on Mars.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Don't tell me they're giving up Hubble to get enough funds together for these new missions! After all the trouble they went through to get it fixed? After all those images it sent us? Just to let it burn up now in the atmosphere? What a bloody waste.

I completely agree with you. Hubble has really given us a window to what is out there. It still has life and it would be a better use of money than just letting it go to waste and focusing on a moon telescope. That is many many years off, if at all possible.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I completely agree with you. Hubble has really given us a window to what is out there. It still has life and it would be a better use of money than just letting it go to waste and focusing on a moon telescope. That is many many years off, if at all possible.

How you gonna get to it to fix it every 15 months once the shuttle program is gone? Build a ladder?

[LutraMage]

When we stop reaching for the stars, we may as well turn off the life support machine and stop bothering to potter around on this tiny planet - let's leave the Earth to the mice or dolphins and hope that they will have a strong enough spirit of adventure to lead this planet's inhabitants into the future.

In short, the long term future of mankind is out there, not sitting here on this pretty, but truely tiny and exhausable little rock.

[jerseydevil]

The Spirit Rover may be dead. There was something going on that interfered with communications- but now they haven't heard anything from it in 24 hours. What is up with that planet?

NASA unable to communicate with Mars rover

(CNN) -- The Spirit rover has stopped transmitting data from Mars, NASA mission controllers said Thursday, but there were signs it is still operating at a basic level.

NASA scientists now have received a basic communication tone from the rover indicating it is alive but the solid flows of data that marked its first 18 days on Mars have stopped, said Richard Cook, deputy project manager, speaking from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

The tone is programmed into the spacecraft, to be emitted when there is a serious problem onboard.

"We know that we have had a very serious anomaly on the vehicle," said Pete Theisinger, manager of the $400 million Spirit mission.

"Our ability to determine exactly what has happened has been limited by our inability to receive telemetry from the vehicle," he told reporters Thursday.

To find out what went wrong, scientists need additional data. But the equipment needed to transmit that information back to Earth may be broken, sources told CNN.

The team was pursuing several scenarios, such as a possible software crash or a problem with the solar power supply.

The next opportunity for communication comes at 11 p.m. ET, when the Mars Global Surveyor satellite is expected to pass over the rover.

The problem, which began Wednesday, was initially blamed on rain in Canberra, Australia, where NASA operates a major radio dish that receives radio messages from space.

But several opportunities to communicate with Spirit since then have come and gone with the space agency receiving no solid data, said Cook, who managed the ill-fated Mars Polar Lander, which presumably crashed into Mars in late 1999.

Mars project engineers sent a query to the rover Wednesday afternoon and it did respond. But the craft was silent when the Mars Odyssey, a satellite in Mars orbit, passed over the six-wheeled robot, Cook said.

Later, when another red planet satellite, the Mars Global Surveyor, passed over the rover, NASA received radio communication but no data. Several opportunities came and went Thursday with no communication. But later the basic communication tone was received.

In its 18 days on the red planet, the rover's performance has been virtually flawless. JPL scientists were reviewing the early data Thursday to see if they might have missed some predictor of trouble.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
What is up with that planet?

You know, that was exactly what I was thinking (only in Dutch) when I heard it. Nothing seems to be able to function for long on Mars. Are the Martians that set on their privacy?

Don't you still have another lander that's going to land soon?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Eärniel
You know, that was exactly what I was thinking (only in Dutch) when I heard it. Nothing seems to be able to function for long on Mars. Are the Martians that set on their privacy?

It makes you wonder what's going on up there. The NASA scientist after the rover landed declared he will no longer refer to Mars as the death planet. I think he's rethinking that now.

Don't you still have another lander that's going to land soon?

Yeah - it's landing shortly (next couple of days I think) and the two were going to be working in conjunction. Now they have to try worrying about getting this problem fixed - if they can, and working on the landing of Oppurtunity too.

[Insidious Rex]

Just goes to show you doing remote control work on a distant planet is really REALLY hard. no other way to put it. yer gonna have a lot of failures no matter what. This is kind of why some people argue for manned missions despite the expense. But unfortunately the enthusiasm for that has already vanished like the wind after Bush's big speech on it. freaking tease...

[The Gaffer]

Really? That's genuinely surprising.

Although I have argued against manned missions, I agree with your comment there that having a human to hit Ctrl-Alt-Del would be infinitely better (in functional terms). Computers are just very fast idiots, after all.

[Ruinel]

the cost of a manned mission has a very high price tag as far as cost alone. That's why the unmanned missions are favored, even though they are pricey, they don't cost nearly as much. On the other hand, machines only do what you tell them to do. They do not improvise. A manned mission has more of a chance for success than an unmanned one.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Ruinel
A manned mission has more of a chance for success than an unmanned one.

Quite right, but a manned mission doesn't only require more money but also more logistics and organisation. Not only do you have to provide life support for a considerable period, you also have to get them back in one piece, preferably also still alive.

Still, I don't favour a manned mission to a planet where we can't even keep a robot operating for a certain period of time just yet. It's too great a risk.

[Insidious Rex]

I wonder if that thing was using Microsoft software. Might explain a few things...

[LutraMage]

If space exploration is going to be judged on 'price' or 'cost' alone, we really had better give up now. In the foreseeable future, there is no way that the cost will be outweighed by the benefits obtained. But in the long term (and I mean after all of those currently registered on the Moot have been dead for many, many years) our decendants will look back and thank us for spending those dollars.

If the Pilgrim Fathers had thought about the cost, would there be an America now?

[Falagar]

NASA got signals again! (only lasted about 10 minutes though)

[Insidious Rex]

This is good news because it could mean the problem is software related and not hardware related. Which would mean it would be more fixable. Its so bizare though. Working fine then garbage then silence for days. then... communication. All I know is if the next thing we hear from the rover is "My God, it's full of stars!" Im hiding under the bed.

[LutraMage]

I'm sorry, did I misunderstand....? Is this a thread on "do we need a space program?" or is it a thread on "how's the Mars Mission going?" Someone do tell....

[Insidious Rex]

I think you can tuck them both under the same umbrella really. But feel free to make another thread if you want to seperate general space exploration from specific mars exploration. I dont see the point though.

[LutraMage]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
I think you can tuck them both under the same umbrella really. But feel free to make another thread if you want to seperate general space exploration from specific mars exploration. I dont see the point though.

Tell you what Rex, why don't you create another thread to talk specifically about Mars exploration? I shall quite happily wait to see if anyone has anything else to say about the wider issue of space exploration at large.

[Insidious Rex]

Because like I said I dont see the point. But heres one for you: what is the prime purpose of doing something like this (exploring mars)? Does there need to be an immediate benefit from it or should it be a more long term focus?

[jerseydevil]

I don't see the point either. The two are hand in hand. The Mars Rover one will have a quick death anyway. We should just have this one to discuss Space Exploration.