U.S. election races...

[hectorberlioz]

Oh sure, Opus Dei, a secret organization so secret that they have their offices on the fifth floor of a building in manhatten...Da Vinci Code didn't let that little secret out did it?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Remember, JFK was campaigned against as Catholic, and he actually had to promise that he wouldn't be a Vatican puppet in the White House. That wasn't that long ago; I imagine Catholic will still hurt Brownback.

What I wanna know is, how do you convert to Catholicism through Opus Dei?

[rohirrim TR]

I don't think it really matters. Dems might try to use it against him but around the midwest his values are well known. So at least locally I can't see it being an issue, on a larger scale I think we'll see him being stereoyped as a stupid farmer since he's from KS an unfair justification that Kansans are given as I'm sure Curub will agree.

[Lizra]

Vote for Evan Bayh. He's my senator. So....where do we read about the entmoot election?

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Remember, JFK was campaigned against as Catholic, and he actually had to promise that he wouldn't be a Vatican puppet in the White House. That wasn't that long ago; I imagine Catholic will still hurt Brownback.

From a great liberal:

ADDRESS TO SOUTHERN BAPTIST LEADERS (1960)

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute -- where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be a Catholic) how to act and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote -- where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference ....

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/...emocrac/66.htm

And, from a great conservative:

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them...

There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservativism'

Barry Goldwater

[Lizra]

Goldwater sure nailed that one! Right on!! Might have been one reason why my atheist father loved him soo!

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Goldwater

...And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservativism'

Umm Barry old buddy, they have the right to dictate you because the'yre your constituents.

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by JFK

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute -- where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be a Catholic) how to act and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote -- where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference ....

That would be nice, except then no school would get money; they would all have to be privately funded, which would be good actually more competition better standards. That must be why that didn't work out.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

Umm Barry old buddy, they have the right to dictate you because the'yre your constituents.

Amen!
Seems to me that JFK was actually more conservative than Goldwater, strangely enough (I KNOW, he ran against LBJ, not JFK, enough already...)

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

That would be nice, except then no school would get money; they would all have to be privately funded, which would be good actually more competition better standards. That must be why that didn't work out.

How does not funding church schools mean not funding any school???

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Amen!
Seems to me that JFK was actually more conservative than Goldwater, strangely enough (I KNOW, he ran against LBJ, not JFK, enough already...)

Depends on what you mean by conservative. Goldwater was definitely on the libertarian wing of conservativism, believing that the government should keep out of people's private business.

Not that that's always a good thing IMHO; Goldwater was opposed to Civil Rights Acts even though he himself was a victim of discrimination: Kicked out of a country club for being half-Jewish, he supposedly joked "Can I stay if I only play the front nine?" (though he later admitted that while he'd have loved to have said it, he didn't.)

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Remember, JFK was campaigned against as Catholic, and he actually had to promise that he wouldn't be a Vatican puppet in the White House. That wasn't that long ago; I imagine Catholic will still hurt Brownback.

Not really...he lives in a largely protestant state, and he is very popular among with "the southern" voters. I know people around here like him. Now, I'm not sure if they know he's catholic...but

What I wanna know is, how do you convert to Catholicism through Opus Dei?

The "through" was Fr. John McClosky in D.C., and he's a big part of Opus Dei. So Brownback isn't Opus Dei, as far as I know...

[hectorberlioz]

Well, I think we can write off Mitt Romney running....

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

Depends on what you mean by conservative. Goldwater was definitely on the libertarian wing of conservativism, believing that the government should keep out of people's private business.

On certain issues... I certainly didn't mean it for everything.

I find that I like JFK and LBJ on the whole-with some reservations, and I'm not such a fan of Goldwater as some conservatives are.

Seems to me that "back then" the Democrats weren't afraid of looking what we now call "Republican" when they had to. Back then they were innovative, these days they're just stupid.

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

How does not funding church schools mean not funding any school???

you will find that in many public schools the religion of secular humanism is in practice. The IRS considers Humanism a religion thats not some terminology I came up with. So unintentionally or otherwise the government funds religion.

[Insidious Rex]

I would like to see you try to establish that in court.

[Lizra]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

you will find that in many public schools the religion of secular humanism is in practice. The IRS considers Humanism a religion thats not some terminology I came up with. So unintentionally or otherwise the government funds religion.

Huh?
My kids have never come home talking about the religion of secular humanism....thank goodness.....

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

I would like to see you try to establish that in court.

It won't be, and can't....it's what I said before in the homosexual marriage thread. Atheism/Humanism is considered "neutral", and therefore teachable.

[GreyMouser]

And that makes it 30...

House Democrats Extend '06 Gains to 30 Seats

House Democrats increased their 2006 election gains to 30 seats Tuesday, with former Rep. Ciro Rodriguez's (D) surprisingly convincing victory over Rep. Henry Bonilla (R) in a runoff election in Texas's massive 23rd District.

With 85 percent of the vote counted, Rodriguez had 54 percent to Bonilla's 46 percent, according to the Texas Secretary of State's office. As expected, Bexar County (San Antonio) cast by far the most votes in the runoff, and Rodriguez carried it by more than 5,000 votes.

.......

Rodriguez's victory is doubly sweet for national Democrats, since they not only pick up another seat but also scored another direct hit on the legacy of former Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas). DeLay engineered the congressional re-redistricting in 2003 that led to a six-seat Republican gain in Texas in 2004. But those gains came at a price. Portions of the 2003 map, including the removal of 100,000 Hispanic voters from the 23rd District, were ruled in violation of the Voting Rights Act by the U.S. Supreme Court last June. The resulting changes in the district's boundaries reinstituted a strong Hispanic presence in the 23rd and led to Bonilla's loss.

Meanwhile...

Just to put things in perspective... with public approval solidly in the 20s, the war in Iraq is now less popular than a bevy of social issues that have long been considered political poison for Democrats. Imagine if a Democratic president and Congress had made any of these issues their #1 priority, as Bush has with Iraq.

And they wonder why they lost the election?

The Iraq War is less popular than gay marriage, legalizing pot, banning handguns, and rescinding the death penalty.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

I would like to see you try to establish that in court.

It already has been. Torcaso V. Watkins (61) Besides that tons of Humanist organizations have religious tax exemptions.