Why terrorists attack America

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan


If you did nothing to them, then why are they doing something to you? Sounds logical, dont it?

Sorry, that IS really lame! Every nut who commits a crime thinks they have a justifiable reason. So...., so what!

Using a simplistic cliche to solve a complex problem offers no solution. Just because thinking about something is difficult.... reducing it to some kind of "grade school rule of nature" shows mental laziness in my opinion. You are trying to turn a chess match into a game of checkers!

[Beor]

However, that wouldn't have the effect of delivering control of arab oil to Western companies, so it's pretty far down the Bush "to do" list.

Thanks for turining the knife that Fenir put in my back.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
well, I know that if my country was the site of THE BIGGEST TERRORIST ATTACK IN HISTORY, I would take a moment to consider why...

If you did nothing to them, then why are they doing something to you? Sounds logical, dont it?

What we did: exist. There you have it. Your big answer.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
... He wants to bomb France now - because of the headscard ban. You really should open your eyes.

I'm sure Fenir would agree that France deserves a terrorist attack. And what did they do? In their own minds, they think that the best country to live in would be one in which there are absolutely no religious influences. They banned head scarfs, like all religious symbols, in schools. For this, they should just buck up and take their bomb.

Isn't this a good reason, Fenir, for people to die?

That is the most stupid argument I ever heard. What did the jews do to hitler? Did millions of Jews deserve to die because someone had to have done something to him? What did millions of people do against Stalin? What about did Europe do again Hitler for him to attack? What did America do to Japan for the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbo? There have been a long history of countries and people attacking others for no reason - or for false reasons. Bin Ladin is full of false reasons.

Oh, yes, they all had reasons.

Hitler had a political agenda, just like the others, including Bin Ladin. Seems the murder of innocent people is justified, as long as there is a reason.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Beor
Thanks for turining the knife that Fenir put in my back.

Now now! Don't believe everything you read! No matter what other reason's there might be...you KNOW (from experience) that you are helping many Iraqi people....it's time for YOU to come home though!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
I agree with this: there are some similarities. Now then, how did the IRA give up the armed struggle? Oh, yes, they became engaged in the political process. Which would be why I believe a viable Palestine is the only long-term answer to terrorism in the Middle East.

I believe there have been attempts, but the problem is the terrorists. As soon as Israel begins to lower their weapons, the terrorist attacks pick up. The terrorists there are not satisfied with a "viable Palestine" but want to destroy Israel. Which is unfortunate, everyone should be able to get along.

However, that wouldn't have the effect of delivering control of arab oil to Western companies, so it's pretty far down the Bush "to do" list.

Arab oil companies have had their boot on the American neck for a long time. I'm looking forward to an end to using petroleum products to get around.

BTW, the troops originally went into NI to protect the Catholics from the Protestants. If the army had pulled out there would have been be Civil War. Why should a Protestant who has lived in Ireland since 1689 have to go and live in England?

They shouldn't have to. But everyone should be able to get along. I don't see a reason not to.

Pardon my ignorance, I don't claim to be a history buff at all, but can you explain where the strife in NI stems from? I think it is about England kicking the Irish off their land, or something. But I really am not familiar. All apologies on this.

[The Gaffer]

Potted history: England and Scotland have used Ireland as a battle ground for about 700 years. Scotland invaded in the 1320s, ostensibly to oust an occupying English army, but ended up just going around trashing the joint.

In the 1600s Cromwell totally mashed the place, as the Royalists had drawn support from there. Later that century William III (King Billy) kicked the Catholics out of Ulster (Northern Ireland).
After 1745 the Brits treated the Irish like second class citizens. Rangers football fans still sing "We are the Billy boys, up to our necks in fenian blood.", which is charming.

When the Republic of Ireland was established in 1920 (?) Ulster was partitioned - it stayed part of the UK because of its Protestant majority. The large Catholic minority in Ulster was annoyed about being left out of the Irish free state, understandably, while the Ulster Protestants had no desire to become part of a Catholic state, equally understandably.

As a result, Ulster Catholics suffered a great deal of harassment and repression at the hands of the Protestants. The IRA, or Republican terrorists, got a lot of support amongst Catholics because they defended their own communities from these attacks and wanted to achieve a united Ireland using "the armalite rifle and the ballot box". Ironically, the British Army was called in to further protect Catholics from Protestant harassment, but pretty soon ended up adding to it (such as by illlegally using Protestant terrorists groups to "off" prominent IRA activists).

I agree re: Palestine: it seems like as soon as there's any danger of negotiations getting somewhere there's another atrocity. However, the Omagh bombing was a conscious effort by the rump of the IRA militants to do the same and it didn't work. If ordinary people actually managed to get somewhere with political process (such as decent water supply, electricity, schools, etc), the extremists' support would begin to subside.

Hey, common thread = RELIGION. Let's blame it on the God-botherers.

[Lizra]

Yes...religion!!

[sun-star]

And for the sake of accurate factual information, let me add that the population of Northern Ireland is 1.7 million. In 2001, 53.1% of those are Protestants and 43.8% Catholics. The two populations are expected to reach 50/50 fairly soon. That's (very) roughly 900,000 Protestants and 750,000 Catholics.

Just so we know some facts when we start talking about mass migration.

[Dwarven Sen]

Wow this thread has grown since friday. I seem to remember trying to calm JD down, and failing.

i am quite happy to blame religion for everything, after all isn't religion the name for faith in beings that created everything, even badness?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
...Hey, common thread = RELIGION. Let's blame it on the God-botherers.

We find a common ground. I agree, let's blame religion.

Thanks for the history lesson.

[Insidious Rex]

far be it for me to come to the defense of organized religion but I think the ultimate blame here is with the nature of man. He just uses religion to his ultimate destruction.

[Sween]

hehehehe you lot flame by making such ignorant statements. Shud i get a spanking ohh i would like that old janet can give me a spanking any time she wants to.

My particular problem with this thread is the point your all missing no one is completally right. Anyone that comits a terrorist act is wrong it shouldnt be done there are basic rules for the treatment of others and flying a big plane into a building sure as hell aint one. But also you miss the big question why did they do this? They want to bring down the western world! lol i hate to say this but have a reality check. That cannot be there plan because its hasnt a hope in succeding.

But you all take the side that you're own country has never done anything wrong this of course it wrong i know for a fact my country has done loads wrong in the past

Im not saying there are easy answer but people on this board need to look at themselves and realise life isnt black and white

[Fat middle]

I tend to agree with IR. The blame is not on religion, but on our difficulty to understand liberties.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Sween
hehehehe you lot flame by making such ignorant statements. Shud i get a spanking ohh i would like that old janet can give me a spanking any time she wants to.

My particular problem with this thread is the point your all missing no one is completally right. Anyone that comits a terrorist act is wrong it shouldnt be done there are basic rules for the treatment of others and flying a big plane into a building sure as hell aint one. But also you miss the big question why did they do this? They want to bring down the western world! lol i hate to say this but have a reality check. That cannot be there plan because its hasnt a hope in succeding.

But you all take the side that you're own country has never done anything wrong this of course it wrong i know for a fact my country has done loads wrong in the past

Im not saying there are easy answer but people on this board need to look at themselves and realise life isnt black and white

Okay Sween, ready for that spanking?

I don't believe that the Americans here are saying that America hasn't done some things wrong. They most certianly have as have all countries. Your remark that the terrorist could not succeed in bringing down the west may be true, but these are not rational thinking people we are dealing with. They are fanatics. They only care about their hate and will go to any extream to express it through a violent means.

[The Gaffer]

They may be fanatics, but to consider them as irrational and unthinking is, IMO, a mistake. What this thread ought to be about is understanding the motives these people have, how they manage to manipulate various agendas to gain support and how to undermine them so that they don't get any.

OK, so it's not religion's fault per se. It's the fault of absolutist belief systems which refuse to acknowledge the relativistic validity of alternate world-views.

Now, what would be a shorthand term for such an unwieldy and long-winded clause? hmmmm * thinks * Ah! I've got it.

Religion

[Sister Golden Hair]

They may be fanatics, but to consider them as irrational and unthinking is, IMO, a mistake.

I didn't say unthinking, but irrational, yes. People that go around killing innocent people to further a cause to me shows how fanatical and irrational they are. They are not to be reasoned with, but IMO they need to be eliminated.

[brownjenkins]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
OK, so it's not religion's fault per se. It's the fault of absolutist belief systems which refuse to acknowledge the relativistic validity of alternate world-views.

i couldn't have said it better myself

[Insidious Rex]

A God who is in some mysterious way a person and who takes an active part in human history lays himself open to criticism. It is all too easy to make this “God” a larger-than-life tyrant or judge and make “him” fulfill our expectations. We can turn “God” into a Republican or a socialist, a racist or a revolutionary according to our personal views. The danger of this has led some to see a personal God as an unreligious idea, because it simply embeds us in our own prejudice and makes our human ideas absolute.

A personal God can become a grave liability. He can be a mere idol carved in our own image, a projection of our limited needs, fears and desires. We can assume that he loves what we love and hates what we hate, endorsing our prejudices instead of compelling us to transcend them. Instead of inspiring the compassion that should characterize all advanced religion, “he” can encourage us to judge, condemn and marginalize.

THATS what I was trying to say.

[Hemel]

IR
Far be it for me to come to the defense of organized religion but I think the ultimate blame here is with the nature of man. He just uses religion to his ultimate destruction.

TG for that. At last there's something that women aren't being blamed for.

Okay, I know.

I'll get my coat