Favorite Elf-King? - Page 9

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-21-2003, 10:39 PM

Luthien wasn't a maia, she was half Maia and half Elven.

If Thingol wasn't the worst Elven king ever, who was?

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-22-2003, 12:29 AM

My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.'

Willow: I know what you mean. I love the name Elwe!

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-22-2003, 10:02 AM

Has to be Feanor for reasons stated above.

Maedhros · 02-22-2003, 11:10 AM

Fëanor is pure greatness to me.

Falagar · 02-22-2003, 01:11 PM

Quote:

My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.'

Can't see how that can be bad leader-ship

Arien the Maia · 02-22-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maedhros
Fëanor is pure greatness to me.

He is the best!

Falagar · 02-22-2003, 07:46 PM

No one greater, no one as great!

Willow Oran · 02-25-2003, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Luthien wasn't a maia, she was half Maia and half Elven.

I know she wasn't a maia, but she was a really awesome character. I was trying to point out that some of that must have been inherited from Elwe.

As for the one worse than Elwe... It'd definetly have to be Feanor, I've never liked him much and there isn't really anything about him to like.

However, I don't actually like Thingol all that much either, (even if I have been defending him.) Finrod was a much better king than he or any of the others ever were (Except possibly Gil-Galad, but if you believe the sources that have him as Finrod's grandnephew that makes sense.)

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-25-2003, 10:21 AM

I'd like to change, my vote if I may to Finwe, who has barely been mentioned.

He bravely stood up against Morgoth and the great darkness that came, and he agreed to stay in Mandos forever, so that Miriel could re-gain her life, but she just sodded off to Vaire's house anway.

He also loved Feanor, my first choice, a lot and had blue-grey eyes, which sounds pretty cool.

Lalaith · 03-01-2003, 09:31 AM

Gil-Galad was pretty impressive.

Ruinel · 03-02-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.'

For these reasons, Feanor gets my vote as the worst king .
Thingol was a bad father, and a racist. He didn't like Beren because he was a Man. Although, if I was a Elf and a father, I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a Man either. I would hope she would find a nice Elf to marry. And make cute Elf grandbabies. Bit of a difference between being a bad father and a bad king.
Finrod Felegund was the best king.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-02-2003, 07:57 PM

'EVERYONE' is a racist in Middle-earth. Have you ever heard anyone saying 'The poor Orcs, they're just misunderstood'?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-02-2003, 07:58 PM

And if I remember correctly, Elrond didn't want Arwen to marry a man unless he was king of both Gondor and Arnor.

Ruinel · 03-02-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
'EVERYONE' is a racist in Middle-earth. Have you ever heard anyone saying 'The poor Orcs, they're just misunderstood'?

Please.

Quote:

And if I remember correctly, Elrond didn't want Arwen to marry a man unless he was king of both Gondor and Arnor.

Yes, but Elrond Halfelven watched Aragorn grow up and I think he was more or less pushing Aragorn into becoming who he was destined to be, not just bumming around the countryside with the Rangers, countryless, homeless. I think Elrond cared for Aragorn like a father (or at least a close uncle). Besides, who would entrust their only daughter to a roaming, homeless Ranger? I know I wouldn't. I would want more for her, no matter who she married. At least he didn't laugh in Aragorn's face and tell him to go fetch a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown! Sheessh!

snowmane · 03-21-2003, 05:08 PM

the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!)

bot daddies gave away their most prosed possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!)

snowmane · 03-21-2003, 05:10 PM

the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!)

both daddies gave away their most prized possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!)

snowmane · 03-21-2003, 05:15 PM

i am in agreement-feanor sucks-he was such a bad leader!does anyone think that gil-galad was pretty good?he helped get rid of sauron, and made good alliances with men...maybe he didnt fight against morgoth, but he was pretty darn good!

feanor is a loser!!

Ruinel · 03-21-2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snowmane
the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!)

bot daddies gave away their most prosed possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!)

Elrond didn't want to see Aragorn waste his life. It was quite possible for Aragorn to take his place and fullfil his destiny. It was a push for Aragorn. Elrond loved Aragorn, he helped to raise him in his home. This is even though he was not totally happy with his daughter (an Elf) marrying a mortal (a Man). Elrond himself was a product of a mixed marriage (Elf/Man), hence his name "Elrond Halfelven".

However, Thingol had nothing but disdain for Beren and scorned him. He gave him an impossible task because it was better than telling him "No, there's no way your going to marry my daughter." When Beren lost his hand and helped hunt down the wolf with Thingol, he gained Thingol's respect and shamed Thingol for asking such an impossible task.

Ruinel · 03-21-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snowmane
i am in agreement-feanor sucks-he was such a bad leader!does anyone think that gil-galad was pretty good?he helped get rid of sauron, and made good alliances with men...maybe he didnt fight against morgoth, but he was pretty darn good!

feanor is a loser!!

Although I am not fond of Feanor, you have to have someone to build a great story on... and that was him. If he had not been so hot headed and selfish the story wouldn't have been so good. He serves a purpose.

Gil-galad was a great leader, you bet! Unfortunately the Silvan Elves that came to fight Sauron were so independent that they wouldn't be ruled by Gil-galad. So, yeah, he was a great ruler... but not so great that he could convince the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood to follow his lead. Too bad for them. I think it was only about 1/3 of those that went into battle that actually returned to Mirkwood after the battle the others died in battle. Mirkwood suffered great casualties, but it was their own fault.

Melko Belcha · 03-21-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
Elrond didn't want to see Aragorn waste his life. It was quite possible for Aragorn to take his place and fullfil his destiny. It was a push for Aragorn. Elrond loved Aragorn, he helped to raise him in his home. This is even though he was not totally happy with his daughter (an Elf) marrying a mortal (a Man). Elrond himself was a product of a mixed marriage (Elf/Man), hence his name "Elrond Halfelven".

However, Thingol had nothing but disdain for Beren and scorned him. He gave him an impossible task because it was better than telling him "No, there's no way your going to marry my daughter." When Beren lost his hand and helped hunt down the wolf with Thingol, he gained Thingol's respect and shamed Thingol for asking such an impossible task.

I fully agree with your statement on Elrond and Aragorn. I have always felt Elrond held high respect for Aragorn, even though losing his daughter was sad, I believe he was really happy inside.

I like Turgon best. He made a mistake for not fleeing the city, but he loved and respected his people. Most Elves in the city probably would not be willing to leave, and Turgon did not want to force them. He found the valley and brought his people there to keep them safe from the evil outside, to let them live in peace. I have always seen Turgon as the type of king that would know the name of every person in the city, or sit down in the middle of the road and play a game with a group of kids. Someone who truely knew his peoples hearts, and minds.

02-21-2003, 10:39 PM	#161
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Luthien wasn't a maia, she was half Maia and half Elven. If Thingol wasn't the worst Elven king ever, who was? __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-22-2003, 12:29 AM	#162
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	My vote goes to Feanor. Leading nine tenths of your people into exile and directly against the will of the Valar for personal revenge, slaughtering your kindred, and then charging a batch of Balrogs single-handed seems like pretty poor kingship to me.' Willow: I know what you mean. I love the name Elwe! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-22-2003, 11:10 AM	#164
Maedhros The Tall Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 578	Fëanor is pure greatness to me. __________________ “What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.

02-22-2003, 07:46 PM	#167
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	No one greater, no one as great! __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 02-25-2003 at 05:07 PM.

03-01-2003, 09:31 AM	#170
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Gil-Galad was pretty impressive. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

02-22-2003, 10:02 AM	#163
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	Has to be Feanor for reasons stated above.

02-25-2003, 10:21 AM	#169
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	I'd like to change, my vote if I may to Finwe, who has barely been mentioned. He bravely stood up against Morgoth and the great darkness that came, and he agreed to stay in Mandos forever, so that Miriel could re-gain her life, but she just sodded off to Vaire's house anway. He also loved Feanor, my first choice, a lot and had blue-grey eyes, which sounds pretty cool.

03-02-2003, 07:57 PM	#172
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	'EVERYONE' is a racist in Middle-earth. Have you ever heard anyone saying 'The poor Orcs, they're just misunderstood'? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-02-2003, 07:58 PM	#173
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	And if I remember correctly, Elrond didn't want Arwen to marry a man unless he was king of both Gondor and Arnor. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-21-2003, 05:08 PM	#175
snowmane Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 23	the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!) bot daddies gave away their most prosed possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!) __________________ faithful servant yet master's bane, lighfoot's foal, swift snowmane..

03-21-2003, 05:10 PM	#176
snowmane Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 23	the point of that story was that thingol didnt think it was possible for him to get the simaril-elrond didnt expect, i think, aragorn to go and become king(or if he did he was trying to get estel to carry out his potential, because he knew he cood do better that just help boring ppl with boring problems!!) both daddies gave away their most prized possessions, and realised that at the time, hence why they asked the men to do damn near impossible fings(course berens was a lot better than that of aragorn-but he had the help of luthien, a half maia!!) __________________ faithful servant yet master's bane, lighfoot's foal, swift snowmane..

03-21-2003, 05:15 PM	#177
snowmane Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 23	i am in agreement-feanor sucks-he was such a bad leader!does anyone think that gil-galad was pretty good?he helped get rid of sauron, and made good alliances with men...maybe he didnt fight against morgoth, but he was pretty darn good! feanor is a loser!! __________________ faithful servant yet master's bane, lighfoot's foal, swift snowmane..

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