Writing using Tengwar characters

[TinuvielChild]

Hmmm...now there's an idea! I'll try and get to it sometime tomorrow or Monday, if I have some time to a) think up some

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and b) write them up in Tengwar. Expect them sometime this week.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Rian, forgive me for not responding sooner. Had a very busy weekend and wasn't around much. I love your attachment and the spoiler translation. It was great. thanks.

I noticed in Foster's Guide that he lists all the Tengwar letters. Interesting.

[Rían]

What's Foster's Guide?

Glad you liked it - I think someone else is working on another issue. It was kinda fun imagining what would be in an Elvish newspaper.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
What's Foster's Guide?

Glad you liked it - I think someone else is working on another issue. It was kinda fun imagining what would be in an Elvish newspaper.

The Complete Guide To Middle-earth by Robert Foster.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Hey- A few Q's. I've noticed that in written Tengwar there are often vowells around/inside letters... any rule to that? Also, how come some of the times they use the little dashes for u and other times they use the o thingy? and stuff?

[Sminty_Smeagol]

+ are there any rules in spelling?

[Rían]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
+ are there any rules in spelling?

yes, the rules are that you are allowed 1 mistake without penalty, then with the next mistake you lose 5 points, then .... JUST KIDDING!

From what I have read, and from the samples that I have seen of JRR and his son Christopher, it is mostly phonetic (by sound) but with some allowance made for the strangeness of English spelling (i.e., there is a special symbol that you may, if you choose, put under the last consonant in a word if it is followed by a silent 'e', like the word "guide"). But the main rule seems to be do it however it looks and sounds best to you!

TC and I have posted some attachments here and we read each other's stuff just fine, although we might choose to write words differently. And several of us were discussing how to write the word "guide" a while back and came up with at least 6 ways (gide, gid, guid, guide, etc - where the 'i' is always a long vowel). So the main thing, IMHO, is to write it however you think people can best read it.

Anyone with other comments?

I'll get to your other question later on, after I get some notes together. Good luck, I hope it is coming well!

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Yeah thanks! Anyways, it's going along pretty well... although lately I just found out about the nasaly ~ thingy over the letter, for n, and it took me a week to realize the "curly" section on the tengwar was in the same spot and that the STEMS were diffy (I had been doing the upper section of "t" above the lower section of "th" -if that makes sense)

Also, what about dipthongs?

Am I asking too many q's? lol

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Here is an example of my horrible tengwar: http://www.geocities.com/reilynravenclaw/tengwar

It's hard writing with a mouse!

Also, what symbold would you use for the unsounded "e" at the end of a word (i.e. modE)? I have so many questions!

PS- in the first word I put a lengthening tilde in the centre of the L... rather than beneath... whoopsies. I don't have all the modifiers and dipthongs and stuff memorized yet... I don't even know them! help?

[Sminty_Smeagol]

+ why do you use the y looking thing in your name rather than the n looking thing?

[Rían]

you did that with a MOUSE?! that's amazing! I guess you don't have a scanner, do you? or you just don't want to go through all that garbage to reduce it down to 10K!

I read it just fine - "hello there, mooters! Am I doing this correctly?" You even have an s-curl! and you're using the double-consonant thingie, too! Good for you!

The silent 'e' at the end of a word is represented by a dot (like the 'i' vowel mark) under the last consonant. You can see an example of it in the passagen link, in the tengwar sample at the end, the first word in the second line, "there". It is written th, then e over the r, then silent e mark under the r.

Do you have a printout of that link? If not, can you get one, and I can answer some of your other questions better if we have the same paper in front of us. Here it is again : passagen link

Have you tried translating any of the tengwar on the LoTR book front pages?

[Rían]

hey, you did 2 posts while I was typing my post - funny! I put the tilde (~) in the middle of my 'L' symbol, too, and so do both Tolkiens, too, if I remember correctly. But I don't like to have it actually cross the "L" tengwa, I just put it in the space in the middle.

I use the 'y'-looking symbol because there are so many 'n'-looking tengwar (the first 24 are basically variations on the 'n'-looking thing) and I think it's more interesting to use a different looking tengwa. It represents a trilled 'r', but I don't say the name that way. But people that know the tengwar will know it's an 'r'. Tolkien used both the n-looking 'r' and the y-looking 'r'. In the word "ring" in the FoTR title page, he uses the y-looking 'r'.

Did you get a printout yet?

I'll check back in about 15 minutes, gotta run take care of something...

[Sminty_Smeagol]

<you did that with a MOUSE?! that's amazing! I guess you don't have a scanner, do you? or you just don't want to go through all that garbage to reduce it down to 10K!

> I have a scanner but the rechargable batteries fell apart (I think I dropped them too many times LOL)

I read it just fine - "hello there, mooters! Am I doing this correctly?" You even have an s-curl! and you're using the double-consonant thingie, too! Good for you!
>I'm not very sure about the double consonant thingy. I've tried putting one consonant above and one below the next letter, but it doesn't seem right. Would I just do one with a carrier and the next with a tehtar (? the little vowells without the carrier) above the next letter?

The silent 'e' at the end of a word is represented by a dot (like the 'i' vowel mark) under the last consonant. You can see an example of it in the passagen link, in the tengwar sample at the end, the first word in the second line, "there". It is written th, then e over the r, then silent e mark under the r.
>Okay thanks a lot. I've been to all these pages but I kind of skim so I don't pick up on everything.

Do you have a printout of that link? If not, can you get one, and I can answer some of your other questions better if we have the same paper in front of us. Here it is again : passagen link
>Eh? a printout?

Have you tried translating any of the tengwar on the LoTR book front pages?
>Yes, it's fun. I'm better at writing it though I think, atleast faster. but probably less accurate

[Sminty_Smeagol]

hey, you did 2 posts while I was typing my post - funny! I put the tilde (~) in the middle of my 'L' symbol, too, and so do both Tolkiens, too, if I remember correctly. But I don't like to have it actually cross the "L" tengwa, I just put it in the space in the middle.
>Okay, thanks a lot for your help...

I use the 'y'-looking symbol because there are so many 'n'-looking tengwar (the first 24 are basically variations on the 'n'-looking thing) and I think it's more interesting to use a different looking tengwa. It represents a trilled 'r', but I don't say the name that way. But people that know the tengwar will know it's an 'r'. Tolkien used both the n-looking 'r' and the y-looking 'r'. In the word "ring" in the FoTR title page, he uses the y-looking 'r'.
>Oh yeah, now that you mention it, I knew that the y thing mean r but I now remember it was trilled. I didn't bother learning it since we don't trill any of our r's. Makes sense though

Did you get a printout yet?
>Eh? again

I'll check back in about 15 minutes, gotta run take care of something...
>Mkay

[Rían]

is "printout" an old-fashioned word that you guys don't use anymore? I just mean have you printed out the link onto a sheet of paper (when you are at the link, hit the "print" button, and you get 4 sheets with everything on the link printed on it).

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Ah mkay... I knew that... I was just making sure you knew it... *coughcough*

[Rían]

[Sminty_Smeagol]

my printer is being stupid, it wont let me print

[Rían]

I should also probably write my Entmoot name like 'r', then two 'e' marks over a short carrier to show long 'e', then the 'a' mark over the 'n', because I pronounce it REE-an. Or, 'r', then 'e' over a long carrier, then the 'a' over the 'n'. But I just wrote it the way it was written in English.

Also, I am bad about using the long carrier because I don't like the way it looks very much. I'll just use a short carrier unless it really makes it hard to figure out the word. I do use the long carrier for the pronoun "I", though, like you did.

OK, anyone - speaking of long vowels, how would you guys write a word like "gaze"? I would do a 'g', then 'a' mark over 'z', then put a silent 'e' mark under the 'z'. But as far as I can figure, that would make the 'a' a short vowel sound. But I figure that people can figure it out anyway (3 'figures' in 2 sentences!!) Would anyone do it differently? For example, 'g', then 'a' over a long carrier, then 'z' with silent 'e' under it? I like how you can just write 2 vowel marks over a consonant for long 'e', 'u' and 'o', but you can't do that for 'a' and 'i'. What do you guys do? (for example, for "doze", I would write 'd', then two 'o' marks over the 'z', then silent-e under the 'z'. Is that how you guys would write it?)

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I know, I hate that you can do double vowells for long ones, except i and a! but I guess double a would look kinda funny... 6 dots IS kinda overdoing it... and double i would look kinda like A...

I think you would have to do g, a over long carrier, z, then silent e, but I wouldn't know; You're teaching me (sorta)! LOL. But it seems more accurate.