08-27-2004, 04:12 PM | #161 | |
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We are NOT proposing anything that is discriminatory, unless you want to call EVERY description of what makes up a marriage (age, gender, relatedness, etc) discriminatory.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-27-2004, 04:23 PM | #162 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'd like to ask people to pause for a minute and consider this statement by IRex:
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IRex, you obviously have the opinion that I can't understand what you're saying. You're entirely wrong. I TOTALLY understand what you're saying. In fact, I understand it so well that I AGREE that you're right, if in fact your underlying worldview beliefs are right. Please re-read that statement You have presented evidence to me to consider. I've considered it, and I have concluded it's invalid. It's NOT a matter of me NOT understanding your evidence. It IS a matter of underlying worldviews, which is the way people INTERPRET evidence. Now I've presented lots of evidence that homosexuality is harmful. Do I say "Why doesn't IRex understand it?!" No, I don't. I realize that I've given you the evidence, and also the freedom to evaluate it and reject it if it doesn't make sense according to how you interpret it via your worldview. I'm very openminded Now the same thing goes on with me. You give me evidence, but can't seem to realize that I can fully understand it and yet conclude that it's false. IF you believed, like I do, that Christianity is true, THEN you would accept my evidence. IF I believed, like you do, the various things you believe, THEN I would accept YOUR evidence. It's NOT a matter of understanding. We both understand each other's evidence. It's a matter of how we evaluate and interpret evidence. Again, I am just mystified how an agnostic like you cannot assent to my statement that IF Christianity (the standard brand, not the fringe ones) is true, THEN homosexuality is harmful. I'm a strong believer in Christianity, and yet I can easily assent to the statement that IF your worldview beliefs are true, THEN homosexuality is not harmful. Do you guys see what I'm saying? Can people have the openmindedness to realize that not everyone has the same worldview beliefs, and the courtesy to assume that people arrive at different worldview beliefs sincerely? I can.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-27-2004 at 04:26 PM. |
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08-27-2004, 04:30 PM | #163 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
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08-27-2004, 04:39 PM | #164 | |||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-27-2004, 04:44 PM | #165 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-27-2004, 04:44 PM | #166 | |||
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 08-27-2004 at 04:52 PM. |
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08-27-2004, 04:52 PM | #167 | |||||||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 08-27-2004 at 04:57 PM. |
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08-27-2004, 04:54 PM | #168 | |||||||||||
Elf Lord
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Obviously according to current laws we're not allowed to marry younger. What I'm discussing is not whether I should be able to act IGNORING those laws , but whether those laws are just in the first place. Quote:
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Though actually, Christian teachings of marriage were installed in the very beginning of Creation. The Christian definition of marriage was the first one.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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08-27-2004, 05:11 PM | #169 | |
Elf Lord
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There are Muslims trying to do the same thing in the U.S., and that really scares Christians that have fled from persecution in Muslim countries to the U.S. I don't know what to do about things like that.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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08-27-2004, 05:28 PM | #170 | ||||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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08-27-2004, 05:34 PM | #171 |
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I do not want to trade *fairness* in for *most popular worldveiw*. I agree with IR on this issue, and note that many christians DO support homosexual marriage. May I suggest the book "Stealing Jesus....How Fundamentalalism betrays Christianity", by Bruce Bawer. It's the book I read AFTER "THe Case for Christ"!
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08-27-2004, 05:53 PM | #172 | ||
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So I could use the occasional prayer, R*an. But Lizra, this isn't nearly a majority of Christians. The Episcopal church of America has alienated itself with its worldwide Anglican brethren for taking an accepting stance of homosexuality. Two churches in the diocese I'm involved with split off from the main body because off this issue, splitting off because the diocese of Los Angeles is in support of homosexuality. The Bible, according to Christians, is the Word of God. It expressly and in several places comes down hard on homosexuality, calling it a sin and a perversion. This new, liberal view of Christianity that's being espoused is clearly against the teachings of the earliest Christian saints and God himself, in the Old Testament. It's a subject I'm capable of talking about at a good deal of length, because of the environment I live in. But this really is not the thread for such a big off-topic discussion. Also, I doubt that you or Insidious Rex are in much of a position to debate the "correct" interpretations of Christian teachings .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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08-27-2004, 06:32 PM | #173 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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It's exactly like how I think that your beliefs about evolution are insulting to humans, and you believe they are NOT insulting to humans, because of your worldview.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-27-2004 at 06:34 PM. |
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08-27-2004, 06:36 PM | #174 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-27-2004, 06:42 PM | #175 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-27-2004, 06:49 PM | #176 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'd like to toss in a quote from C.S. Lewis here that I think is very relevant: Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-27-2004, 06:58 PM | #177 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 08-27-2004 at 06:59 PM. |
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08-27-2004, 07:03 PM | #178 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Most people, esp. non-Christians, are too easily pleased ... our desires are not strong enough ... as Lewis says, we turn down a trip to the beach because we're content to splash in the mud ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-27-2004, 07:07 PM | #179 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I ask this seriously, because from what you said, I think you might need to reconsider things a bit.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-27-2004, 07:15 PM | #180 | |
Elf Lord
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I've thought about it a little and I'm not completely 100% positive what your point is. Could you tell me over PM?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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