12-05-2006, 08:02 PM | #161 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Oh, don't even bother trying "my teachers are better than your teachers". You will lose in a most embarrassing way.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
12-05-2006, 09:41 PM | #162 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Quote:
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
12-10-2006, 04:34 PM | #163 |
Word Santa Claus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,922
|
I think my Shakespeare prof believes Shakespeare to have been at some level cryptoCatholic. I disagree, though. There was enough residual Catholicism a) in English society outside the Church and b) in the practices of the Anglican Church under Elizabeth to account for the not-particularly-huge references to Catholicism in the plays (on top of which, of course, a lot of the plays are set before Protestantism existed).
__________________
Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. |
01-17-2007, 11:40 AM | #164 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
You're right, the Church in England was still holding onto some of the traditions .
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
01-06-2009, 02:42 AM | #165 |
Word Santa Claus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,922
|
If by "holding onto some of the traditions" you mean constantly threatening to kick out anyone who wouldn't wear surplices, yes. Although Shakespeare lived in a relative dip in the intensity of what would later be identified as the low church/high church war. (Mostly) after Foxe, Goodman, and the other radicalized Marian exiles and before Laud, Milton, and the radicals on both sides.
__________________
Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. |
01-06-2009, 04:10 AM | #166 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Anyone who wouldn't put on a surplice, and anyone who wouldn't take off a chasuble. Good ol' via media.
I don't think Milton was CoE; he would have been a heretic according to them, retaining the threefold ministry of bishop priest and deacon. For Milton, even the Presbyterian church structure was too centralised, organised, hierarchical, what have you. The ghost in Hamlet, who died unshriven, seems to indicate a belief in something other than heaven and hell as possible destinations for the souls of the dead. While the Articles of Religion do not completely rule out the possibility of such a place, they do condemn the Romish doctrine of purgatory, and prayers for the dead were excised in the '52 BCP, which indicates (though, granted, does not absolutely demonstrate) a move away from alternatives to a strict heaven/hell divide. It would be a stretch to refer to this as being retained in the practices of the Anglican Church, though to attribute it to residual Catholicism still in the ideas of the people seems reasonable. It was, I believe, customary at the time to portray Catholicism in a highly negative light; most people in society were Protestant or atheist, neither of whom had a high view of the Roman Church. But Friar Lawrence is a sympathetic character in Romeo and Juliet, in an age when Catholicism was in poor favor with society as a whole (even if they did retain some residual Catholicism). His mother also was, apparently, a member of a prominent Catholic family. If Shakespeare was not Catholic, it seems improbable that he was not at least sympathetic to Catholicism. Of course, he was also gay, too.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
01-06-2009, 10:34 AM | #167 |
Word Santa Claus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,922
|
Atheism was considered as dangerous as Catholicism - witness Kit Marlowe being investigated for having given "the atheist lecture" to Walter Raleigh - and the two were often linked, ironically enough, in popular superstition. However, I don't think Elizabethan audiences were likely to have trouble with a Roman swearing by Jupiter or a Catholic crossing himself or worrying about last rites; the theater of the time seems to have swarmed with characters who would not have been accepted in contemporary culture. Perhaps this even served as a release. At any rate, I would hesitate to take any (Shakespearean) character's existence as an argument for Shakespeare's or his society's views towards any religion, although they are obviously examples of what sort of ideas were known (if not approved of or tolerated) in his day.
As for Milton, he would have told you he was Church of England, just that he believed the Church had to be further Reformed (by, say, abolishing the hierarchy and the Popish influences). This was part of the normal variation in Renaissance England, although he was an extremist of one party. Especially during Milton's life, violent (sometimes physically violent) disagreement about doctrine was a centerpiece of what it meant to be part of the English church.
__________________
Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. |
10-16-2009, 02:52 AM | #168 |
Word Santa Claus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,922
|
GW - am now in a Milton class here at grad school, and realizing that you may be righter about Milton than I thought. I still think I'm right about how he would have described himself, but others would probably have described him (and did; yay pamphlet wars!) the way you do.
__________________
Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. |
10-18-2009, 08:14 PM | #169 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
If you wait long enough, it always turns out I was right.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
10-19-2009, 01:39 AM | #170 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Milton? OMGoodness, some of his lines in Paradise Lost bring me to tears ...
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-09-2011, 07:00 PM | #171 |
Enting
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In the land of Mordor
Posts: 56
|
I don't really like William Shakespeare in my real life, but have to read it to school. Plus it's kind'a boring to me. Everything is only play.
__________________
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, |
01-09-2011, 11:58 PM | #172 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 401
|
Quote:
I haven't read much. Julius Caesar was very well-written and entertaining, but R&J was too romantic for my tastes. I am, however, very fond of his sonnets. My favorite is Sonnet 8-I liked it so much I memorized it . Music to hear, why hear'st thou music sadly? Sweets with sweets war not, joy delights in joy. Why lovest thou that which thou receivest not gladly, Or else receivest with pleasure thine annoy? If the true concord of well-tuned sounds, By unions married, do offend thine ear, They do but sweetly chide thee, who confounds In singleness the parts that thou shouldst bear. Mark how one string, sweet husband to another, Strikes each in each by mutual ordering, Resembling sire and child and happy mother Who all in one, one pleasing note do sing: Whose speechless song, being many, seeming one, Sings this to thee: 'thou single wilt prove none.'
__________________
Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien |
|
01-10-2011, 12:16 AM | #173 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
But the play is the fun part!
I also love the Sonnets, Elleth. My favorite of the plays is Lear; Hamlet and Julius Caesar are probably tied for my second favourite.
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
01-16-2011, 01:07 AM | #174 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Given the weather lately, this is the one that comes to mind right now:
When icicles hang by the wall And Dick the shepherd blows his nail And Tom bears logs into the hall, And milk comes frozen home in pail, When Blood is nipped and ways be foul, Then nightly sings the staring owl, Tu-who; Tu-whit, tu-who: a merry note, While greasy Joan doth keel the pot. When all aloud the wind doth blow, And coughing drowns the parson's saw, And birds sit brooding in the snow, And Marian's nose looks red and raw When roasted crabs hiss in the bowl, Then nightly sings the staring owl, Tu-who; Tu-whit, tu-who: a merry note, While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
01-16-2011, 02:44 AM | #175 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I just took a break from doing the dishes to check the Moot, and I see ... dishes!
*goes back to the pots* (but I'm not greasy)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-17-2011, 05:25 PM | #176 |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Imladris (and sometimes Norway)
Posts: 3,304
|
See, there's not only play, there's also poetry!
__________________
Signature picture art - Bard the Bowman - by vigshane Avatar art - Footsteps of Spring (a young Luthien) - by Henning Janssen |
01-17-2011, 09:34 PM | #177 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Shakespeare, you know, had a good bit to do with standardization of English, as did the King James Version of the Bible - from the same era. So, I thought I would give access to some interesting information in this the 400th year of the KJV and note its importance alongside William. (There are theories that Bill helped with the phraseology and hidden messages asserted to be placed by Bill in the KJV text!)
See here: NYT http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/the...on/09sun3.html BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12205084 NPR http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132788...-Prior-Version NPR2 http://www.npr.org/2011/01/07/132737...00-Years-Later Freely borrowed from hogwartsprofessor.com where there is much more about shared texts: http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/the...ars/#more-2805
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 01-17-2011 at 09:34 PM. Reason: speelin' agin |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
One Thousand and One Knights | hectorberlioz | General Messages | 160 | 04-06-2007 04:03 AM |
Neuromancer or William Gibson? | Carafin | Fantasy and Sci-Fi Novels | 7 | 08-26-2004 01:15 PM |
How many people would make up a knights retinue in literature and reality? | afro-elf | General Messages | 8 | 10-24-2003 10:45 PM |
Poe vs. Shakespeare | WiseWizard | General Literature | 43 | 12-10-2002 01:18 AM |
William Shakespeare | Miranda | General Literature | 2 | 11-22-2002 11:17 PM |