05-29-2005, 01:11 AM | #161 |
Elf Lord
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It was probably rather ridiculous of me to submit post 156. I mean, honestly, why should I speak if I'm not going to continue talking about the matter anyway? It's like just shooting in a kind of "last word" pointlessly . Oh well .
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05-29-2005, 01:41 AM | #162 |
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Just a question.... Isn't the United States suppose to keep religion and state seperate. And if so, why are gays still denied marriage, when one can argue they are being denied their pursuit of happiness?
Personally, I think every american who is against gay marriage, is pathetic. Same goes to the religous, I think if you are against gay marriage you deserve to go to hell. Discriminating agianst homosexuals because of intolerance is not what I call decent, just or morally right. Last edited by Ragnarok : 05-29-2005 at 01:50 AM. |
05-29-2005, 02:38 AM | #163 | ||||
Elf Lord
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A person doing illegal drugs all the time is probably pursuing happiness. It can be debated whether these drugs should be made legal or not. However, it clearly should be illegal for the government to say "the drugs are fine!" when they aren't! Don't you agree? The government saying that homosexuals wanting marriage should be given the same rights as heterosexuals desiring marriage would be the same as the government saying, "homosexuality is fine!" Perhaps this is true. The fact is that without good, reliable, impartial studies being taken, we don't know. What I advocate is therefore that we know whether or not homosexuality is fine before we say it is. We should know that it is essentially the same as heterosexual marriage before we apply heterosexual marriage laws to homosexuals. Acting based on a lack of knowledge is not smart. Quote:
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There are other diseases that also come from this kind of behavior. Sure, other people get other STDs as well. However, monogomous, heterosexual marriage is an almost 100% foolproof means of protection from these things.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-29-2005, 03:09 PM | #164 | ||||||||
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05-29-2005, 06:34 PM | #165 |
Elf Lord
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Umm, Lief, I don't believe I have ever said or argued that HIV/AIDS originated in homosexuals. I believe that the evidence is that it is a zoonosis in Africa that has successfully made the transition to endemic illness in humanity. What I have plainly maintained (and still maintain) was that the dissemination of this localized zoonosis to a world-wide plague was accomplished via predominantly homosexual behaviours in its long-latency phase in a well-nourished and otherwise healthy population of 1st-worlders.
The disease itself is spread via transmission of a virus, specifically a retrovirus. It is sexually transmitted in both heterosexuals and homosexuals(of either stripe, by the way, though much less commonly in lesbians as a group without other risk factors). The CDC statistics to this day show that the riskiest behaviours for acquiring AIDS/HIV remain MSM (men who have sex with men, e.g., homosexual fluid exchanging, fluid retentive behaviours primarily), drug users who share needles (anyone worry about hepatitis anymore?), multiple partners, etc. {I have posted the links to this data}.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-29-2005, 06:35 PM | #166 | ||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-29-2005, 06:43 PM | #167 |
The Intermittent One
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on a lighter note, i find it incredibly amusing that whilst the uk has an offical religion, and the us does not, the us is far more religious than the most religious areas of the uk!
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05-29-2005, 10:48 PM | #168 |
Elf Lord
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Yes, Rian, I noticed Raggy's little faux pas! I was having problems clearing my eyes of the tears of laughter and thus couldn't respond! (Reminds me of CS Lewis' observations about folks who opposed capital punishnment in principle but then offered to horsewhip to death anyone who mistreated any animal.) It also reminds me of the country song "I live for little moments like that!"
Yes, LCoU, the freedom of worship in the USA to not have to attend a prescribed state church does in fact result in most folks choosing to go to worship. It's only those beastly holdovers from pre-fall of the Communist world view as applied in the enlightened policies of Lenin, Stalin, etc who hold the abolition of religion (as a religious doctrine themselves, BTW) the chief goal of the state (and those poor souls who have not yet recovered from the seemingly enlighted tutorage of similarly afflicted individuals) who advocate that in the USA. The latter group like to pretend to enlightenment not vouchsafed to the hoi polloi as well. They, after all, know what is best; as they will quickly tell you. (Their only problem is history. For when the dialectic applied by Marx is applied to his theory and its results, it fails.........except for those who hold it an article of faith! ) Meanwhile, I attach this little interesting article about the late Pope JPII and President Bush and their respective moral views on selected subjects as derived from their religious traditions: this seems the most appropriate forum. http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...0505030809.asp What thinkest thou?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-29-2005, 10:53 PM | #169 | |||||
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If the drive for sex with multiple partners was absolutely strong in every person, I think we might find more supporting it in world religions. Islam, Christianity and Judaism all stomp on this. Islam's laws allow up to four wives, but modern Muslim theologians argue that this was because Muhammad was trying to get the best that could be expected. In other words, he was working toward a goal when he offered this law. Jesus said that the law allowing people to divorce whenever they pleased was given "because their hearts were hard." I believe that the desire for sex is inherent in human nature. I believe that having multiple partners or sex outside of wedlock is a perversion of this, and I don't believe it is truly fulfilling for anyone who is involved in it.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 05-29-2005 at 10:55 PM. |
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05-30-2005, 02:08 AM | #170 | |||
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And Inked, I'm glad you found that funny. |
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05-30-2005, 02:29 AM | #171 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-30-2005, 02:35 AM | #172 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And a reminder post to IRex, who appears to be gone this weekend -
IRex: Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-30-2005, 06:52 AM | #173 | |
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in he words of emma kennedy "Here is a wall, here is my head, go bash it" |
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05-30-2005, 12:21 PM | #174 |
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Rian, in what way is gay marriage harmful to anyone? What IR is saying is that while PBA causes obvious physical harm, gay marriage does not.
Can you please say in what way it is harmful exactly, and to whom?
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06-01-2005, 04:26 PM | #175 |
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I'll pick up the discussion of gay marriage on the glb thread if you want me to, since I don't want to be chided by an admin for going off-topic ...
For this thread, I"m just pointing out several things about inconsistent attitudes by IRex. He says that I shouldn't restrict the freedom of people to do something they think is right (gay marriage), yet HE does the exact same thing when he wants to restrict the freedom of people to do something they think is right (partial birth abortion). He's tried to make the determining factor to be if it's harmful or not, but that can't be true for two reasons - (1) he's said before that even if gay marriage WAS scientifically proven to be harmful (like smoking), that we STILL shouldn't restrict it. (2) I'm guessing he's against restricting earlier abortions, and those abortions also, obviously, harm the fetus, so it looks like there's other things involved than harm, such as an individual's definition of personhood. So it's NOT only about harm, even tho he is apparently trying to make it seem so (and people even disagree on the definition of what is harmful, depending on their worldview, altho the physical part is pretty well agreed upon - for example, some people think games that keep score and there is a winner and loser are very harmful, so they invent games where there are no losers). So to be consistent, if HE is supporting restrictions on partial birth abortions, then he should stop telling ME to support restrictions on marriage. (But I've noticed that consistency and IRex sometimes part ways ... ) That's what started this discussion - I get tired of him telling me to not force MY views on others when he feels free to force HIS views on others. Personally, I think my position is more logical - I think everyone should vote for what they think is right, even if I don't think it's right. So for this thread, Hobbit, since we're talking about determinations of right and wrong and things like that, do you think partial birth abortions are totally fine, or would you support any type of restriction on them? If you would support restrictions, do you then tell other people (like me) to not vote against gay marriage (which would be a double standard on your part), or do you just ask me why I think it is wrong, and share why you think it is fine, and discuss the matter, and then say we should both vote for what we think is right?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-01-2005 at 04:32 PM. |
06-01-2005, 05:25 PM | #176 | ||||||
Quasi Evil
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Will since you are just ignoring what I keep saying and resorting to the same old name calling rather then actually LISTENING to what im SAYING then I guess Im gonna just have to resort to doing the same with you. Im saddened that you choose to use this kind of tactic.
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06-01-2005, 07:46 PM | #177 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Second, I do NOT ignore what you say - I listen to what you say, and think about it, and analyze it, and I point out where I don't agree with your reasoning. That's not "ignoring"! That's disagreement. People don't always agree. I'm trying to understand you here - do you think any time a person disagrees with you that they're ignoring you? I don't think that - I think that people can have honest disagreements, even after carefully listening to each other. Do you? I think that's what's happening here, and I wish you would stop saying I'm ignoring you, because I am NOT. I still think that your reasoning is in error, and you are applying a double standard, and I"m trying to show that. I guess I could say that you are ignoring me, too, if disagreement is what you mean by "ignoring"
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-01-2005, 07:54 PM | #178 | |
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06-01-2005, 08:07 PM | #179 | |
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(My knowledge of the universe is imperfect, too, obviously - but we each need to go on what we think is right, based upon our own personal observations and experience, IMO.) Before I answer any more, would you please answer this: do you think partial birth abortion is wrong? If so, why? If not, why not?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-01-2005, 08:13 PM | #180 | |
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