03-26-2006, 08:35 PM | #161 | |
"The Bomb"
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John Locke is my favorite character. Anyway though, he really is. I assumed the creators of Lost picked that name deliberately, but now I don't really think he's similar to the real Locke. I digress.
I reread most of this thread just now and realized that there were lots of posts I meant to reply to! IDK why I didn't. First of all, sorry for leaving you hanging, Rian. Quote:
Someone proposed that beauty is inherent in everything, just waiting to be noticed by someone with just the right mindset to notice it. I disagree. I think that art is inherent in everything. To sumarize my views on art: Art is the potential to be interpreted as allegorical. For example, I remember being very little, squatting in my backyard, holding a soft, bright green leaf that had somehow fallen from a tree despite its impressive health. I was admiring its flawlessness, and very glad to be able to examine it so closely without having it disintegrate in my hands like a dead leaf would. I never really noticed all those veins before, nor had I noticed that if you put the leaf between your eye and the sun, you could sort of see through it and see all the little veins that form patterns inside and don't even affect the surface. Then I started to think, "This leaf is just like life. These veins are just like all the turns we can take in our life, major, minor, good, or bad. These little boxes inside are just like all the different areas of life that we carry with us in memory. So different, and yet all parts of one leaf, that in people, make us unique." BTW I swear I'm not making this one up. There would be no reason for that. I know it doesn't make sense that I remember this so vividly or that I would be thinking like this as a six-year old kid, but the important thing is that it seems poetic doesn't it? Because that leaf represented something to me that was more than just a literal leaf. It was art. It would have been art whether I noticed it or not, but, lucky for the both of us, I did notice it, and I found it beautiful. That's what I mean. Things are beautiful when someone recognizes the art in them. The most similar famous philosophical statement that I'm familiar with would be that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." (Anybody know who said that?) I guess I agree with that, but I wanted to be more specific.
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03-26-2006, 09:01 PM | #162 | |
"The Bomb"
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Quote:
What are you insinuating? That you think leaving a positive impact on the world is probably not what we should be doing with our lives, because there is something better? ( I'm not attacking you, because I don't know yet. But if so we'll probably argue until one of us dies.) What do you "hope for"?
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03-26-2006, 09:07 PM | #163 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Ciao, Bombadillo, I just wanted to say before I forget, that was an awesome post. I understand in a visceral sense what it is you're trying to explain, and I'd elaborate but right now I'm at my boyfriend's office computer and it is way too slow, plus I'm drinking beer, and am also otherwise distracted, but I just wanted to say awesome post about the nature of beauty and art, and the age old question "what is art," and beauty being in the beholder's eye and everything. Wasn't that a line from a Shakespeare play?
I picked John Locke to re-bump this thread with because I love his philosophy and that randomly happened to be who popped into my head this morning when I was trying to think of something, anything to jumpstart the thread with, but to tell you guys the truth, I think a discussion about what is art, and the nature of true beauty, is a much, much more interesting and fun place to re-jump from. Thanks, Bombadillo! Now, if only brownjenkins, The Gaffer, Hasty Ent, sun-star, Shah, Earniel, Nurvingiel, Beard of Pants, etcetera etcetera - and many, many more will pounce upon this interesting possible philosophical talk, we could have a wonderful time! As long as we keep religion out of it. There's dozens, literally dozens of threads with a religious theme; I think it's so great to keep at least one secular philosophy or non-religious philosophy thread open. That being said, I go drink my beer now. This computer is way, way too slow, man.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 03-26-2006 at 09:16 PM. |
03-26-2006, 09:08 PM | #164 |
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Responding I am!
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-26-2006 at 09:12 PM. |
03-26-2006, 09:20 PM | #165 |
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Lief, you think we can keep it secular here? Can I ask you, please, please, to keep the religion out of this thread, as much as is humanly possible? Please, please, try to curtail your urge to turn the conversation to God or gods or being a christian; can you do that for us? There's all kinds, all kinds of threads you could discuss away about god and religion in; if you type in Philosophy in the search function it'll pull up all sorts of juicy religion-themed threads, like Religion and Individualism, stuff like that. I'm on my knees here, begging.
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03-26-2006, 09:38 PM | #166 |
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Okay, Lotesse! I'm responding in the Religion forum.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-26-2006 at 09:41 PM. |
03-26-2006, 09:45 PM | #167 |
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Lotesse, your dinosaur comics (easily one of the best sites I've ever seen BTW, and seriously, thanks for introducing me to it) really struck a nerve with me. The one about nihilism in particular.
(The rest of this post is an unnecessarily long and perhaps melodramatic story about myself that only touches upon philosophy superficially. You don't even have to read it if you'd rather just continue the discussion. At least I warned you frankly. ) I'm in high school, another name for the hell that is a building full of three thousand kids with minor identity crises and highly exaggerated psychological issues. Every one of them but me has a MySpace, and almost every one of their pages if totally filled with poems about their peerless torture and nihilistic existence. Now I find that pretty funny, how they profess to be irreprably emotionally scarred and completely devoid of emotion at the same time, but I can't blame them; it's just so cool to have everyone think you're insane nowadays, I don't know why I try so hard to be rational, and nihilism is such a cool word, I don't know why I don't throw it around more often. So I obviously can't even talk about people like this without getting worked up. The problem was that when I first encounted the word "nihilistic," I didn't know what it meant, but it was in their writing. I associated it with them, and of figured it meant something along the same lines as woe, clamity, dark essense, the sort of things that the rest of their poetry deals with. So when I looked up its definition I was totally taken aback. That's me. I'm a nihilist. Maybe not, because I'm sentimental in some ways, but then again who isn't? There's probably no such thing as a true nihilist. Out of all the people I've ever encountered, I am, no contest, by far, the most nihilistic. I realized this, and I felt horrible, like garbage, for being able to identify with these people. So for like a month I was shocked. I kept thinking about it. But ultimately I accepted that yeah, I am the most nihilistic, but why do people associate this with something bad? The only reason these goth-wannabe wimps claim to be nihilistic is because they think it makes them seem willingly disconnected from society when in fact they're still eagerly searching for a place, I concluded. But you can be nihilistic without being a grouch. So life has no meaning, probably. That's no excuse to just piss and moan to no end. Do good stuff to no end. It's better. I guess what I'm trying to demonstrate is that people associate nihilism with negativity. I myself am often mistaken for being antisocial or insensitive for things I say/do in attempts to dispell people's anxiety over silly little things. I'm just curious as to what people think about nihilism, and what sort of person they picture when they picture a nihilist. Anyone? EDIT: CRAZY CROSS-POST!!!! ^ That took me 45 minutes to compose!
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 03-28-2006 at 07:58 PM. |
03-27-2006, 12:12 AM | #168 |
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Nihilism
The following taken from this link; you guys can read the rest of the definition here - http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm
Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism. I think it's true, what Bombadillo says, in that there's really no such thing as a true nihilist.
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 03-27-2006 at 12:13 AM. |
03-27-2006, 12:23 AM | #169 |
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I think nihilists are the only atheists with balls.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-27-2006, 12:37 AM | #170 |
"The Bomb"
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That settles it then. Tomorrow I'm buying Nietzsche for Dummies.
Rian, thanks for the compliment? LMAO!
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03-27-2006, 12:46 AM | #171 | |
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-27-2006, 12:46 AM | #172 |
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Beyond Good and Evil is really good.
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03-27-2006, 01:24 AM | #173 |
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Yeah, but I also hear that it's a very difficult read... One day...
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03-27-2006, 01:34 AM | #174 | |
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It's not!! It's not difficult to read, not at all! And it isn't a big book, either. You shouild check it out, just to check it out - I mean that, literally. Like, go to the library, and check it out, and skim through it & check it out.
Here's the beginning of Part Two, The Free Spirit: Quote:
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03-27-2006, 12:13 PM | #175 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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und morgen die Welt!
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03-27-2006, 12:40 PM | #176 | |
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-27-2006, 01:02 PM | #177 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Reality isn't necessarily always difficult. If something is easy, it doesn't automatically mean it's not true.
"testicular fortitude" - LOL! ps - I don't think you need that book, Bomb! Quote:
*imagines Nietsche on Entmoot* Reminds me of Monty Python's "Philosophers' Soccer Game"
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 03-27-2006 at 01:04 PM. |
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03-27-2006, 01:09 PM | #178 |
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Crude language, RÃ*an! (Slaps her wrist) No more, thanks .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-27-2006, 01:38 PM | #179 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, but I think it's an important point, and sometimes strong language puts the point across better. So on occasion, I'll use it.
EDIT - Lotesse, what does that quote mean to you, in your own words?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 03-27-2006 at 01:40 PM. |
03-27-2006, 01:56 PM | #180 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Quote:
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