07-07-2003, 03:05 AM | #161 | ||
Elf Lord
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Jerseydevil, did you read the article you posted?
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07-07-2003, 03:07 AM | #162 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-07-2003, 03:09 AM | #163 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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You're welcome re Case for Christ (good book, innit?), and I"ll pop over to the Offshoot thread for a quick peek before I sign off... Well, I got halfway thru page 6 here, but I really must sign off now - gnite all! And good luck on the SAT's, Lief! I knew you were homeschooled, but I thought your parents would give you a bit of a summer vacation I think you'll blow those tests away, no problem. If you have the time, drop me a PM when the tests are scheduled, and I'd be very glad to pray for you
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-07-2003, 03:10 AM | #164 | ||
Elf Lord
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07-07-2003, 03:10 AM | #165 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-07-2003, 03:20 AM | #166 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-07-2003, 03:21 AM | #167 | ||
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The invention wasn't any more "simple" in my opinion, than the bow and arrow. The bow and arrow requires knowledge of the suppleness of branches, of various things- but I think the Neanderthal could have discovered it. Here it seems to be entirely a matter of opinion, though. The Neanderthal plainly were capable of making pretty clever inventions, of doing work in making pots, cooking meat, making recipes, setting up cooking fires, etc. What makes you think that that's less hard than making a bow and arrow? True, the second might require a little more imagination, but that isn't any strong evidence that the Neanderthal had a "brain limit". Last edited by Lief Erikson : 07-07-2003 at 03:25 AM. |
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07-07-2003, 03:25 AM | #168 | ||
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-07-2003, 03:41 AM | #169 | ||||
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A couple of things: for technology to spread prolifically, you need trade and exchange. These two processes were not optimised during earlier periods because of the isolation factor. This is why: from the neolithic age onward, you get an increasing exponential growth towards greater degrees of technological development. Secondly: there are many technologies which can not survive the archaeological record. Language is one. There are indicators that we can look at: brain endocasts, spinal cord size indicated in vertebrae, hyoid bones, etc, but there is no, 'aha, this mammal spoke' bone. By all indications, language probably eventuated with Homo erectus, and became more developed through the Neader and sapiens. Quote:
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07-07-2003, 03:44 AM | #170 | |
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07-07-2003, 03:46 AM | #171 |
Elf Lord
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Read my posts on pages 75-79, I think. That's about as far as I skimmed. The Jewish leaders of the time wrote that Jesus did magic, instead of denying any miraculous events (even though they were against him). The Biblical witnesses died for what they believed, and what they upheld to the death was a rigorous law of integrity and virtue. This demonstrates in part what their own characters were, and greatly enhances their reliability. Then of course we have the epistles that were written during the lifespans of the witnesses, and which referred people to talk to them about their own experiences.
I could go on and on . . . like RÃ*an, I felt the urge to respond . So review my posts. Or, far better than that, you could read "The Case for Christ" yourself. But Jerseydevil, I fear that you are blinded by an incredibly strong bias, without even being willing to accept the remotest possibility that anything we present, be it factual or not, is true. |
07-07-2003, 03:46 AM | #172 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I am a computer programmer - I have to break large ideas into their respective parts. Looking at the bow and arrow or any other invention is no different. Just look at all the stuff it takes you to get a drink of soda. You have to know how to walk, how to grasp a glass, how to open the bottle, how to pour the drink without spilling. Then each of those steps have steps inside them. You would have to learn how to walk, how balance, how to change direction, etc. You would have to know the characteristics of the bottle - is it twist off or pop-tab? If your mind does not have the cabaility to look at all these things you will never be able to get a glass of soda. Now if you tried getting a drink of soda while on roller blades - even though it is very simiar - you would have to learn quite a few knew things and make adjustments - particularly with your balance. If the soda bottle was now pop-cap - you would also have to figure out that. In other words, you would have to look at the world in a whole knew way - because you are no longer planted firmly on the ground and now the soda bottle has a completely new lid type. The key here is being able to look at the world in a KNEW way. If you tried moving and pouring a glass of soda while on roller blades the same as if you were walking - you'd fall flat on your face and spill it everywhere.
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07-07-2003, 03:53 AM | #173 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-07-2003, 04:01 AM | #174 |
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Yes, we actually covered some segments of that documentary in class - mainly the erectus program (I hope I'm thinking of the right show!) However, the neander portrayal was viewed as a little problematic. As I said in my previous post, they weren't as limited as previously thought. It's probable that they had speech, that they had complicated, more gracile stone tools, they have the earliest recorded burials with ochre and flowers, which indicates reverence for the dead, as well as perhaps an belief in the afterlife, and so on. Endocasts of their braincases don't indicate any particular lack of brain development in the appropriate areas, but I will state that I am by no means a neander expert, having concentrated more on the earlier hominids.
Edit: Nope, it's not the show we covered. Last edited by Sheeana : 07-07-2003 at 04:05 AM. |
07-07-2003, 04:06 AM | #175 | |||||
Elf Lord
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This argument is growing to focus more upon trivial points.
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07-07-2003, 04:09 AM | #176 |
Elf Lord
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I have to go to bed now. I have a school day tomorrow, and it's getting really late here. Goodnight, all. I'll talk to you again, hopefully, in about a week.
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07-07-2003, 04:11 AM | #177 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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By the way Lief - you and Sam both talk as if I know nothing about the bible and that I have always been an atheist. As I explained before - I'm an atheist because I took a critical eye to the bible and said "Does any of this make sense?" And to me - it doesn't. It looks like chidren's tales to try making people behave and have something to look forward to after death. There are 50,000 stories just like Noah or Jonah or Moses - it doesn't mean they have anything to do with a supreme being.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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07-07-2003, 04:17 AM | #178 | ||
Lord of the Pants
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hu·man __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(hymn) n. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens. And note: I said, "generally." If you want to refer to earlier ancestors to distinguish from sapiens, it is best to use hominid, or something similar. Quote:
Neanders haven't been around all that long either. I'm not sure on my dates (not my field of specialisation) but I'm pretty sure it's from around 250,000 - 28,000 BP. How do you mean more intelligent than the early humanoids? (Sorry, if I'm being dense today... blame the cold weather. ) |
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07-07-2003, 04:23 AM | #179 |
Lord of the Pants
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Btw: Jon, not to be nitpicky, but it is generally believed that the leisure time from Hunter-Gatherer to modern human has DECREASED rather than increased. Although you make a good point about short life-spans.
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07-07-2003, 06:22 AM | #180 | ||
Entmoot Attorney-General,
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Science is the systematic search for knowledge that can be observed OR FOUND by anyone. There are fossils and other evidence of evolution with knowledge that can be controlled by anyone (with adequate expertise of course, but everyone has the right to get that kind of education if they want). Now the evidence of evolution has been compiled into the Theory of Evolution. That is, lots of scientific facts have been put together to create a theory. That IS science. Just a remark. A hundred years ago there was not as much facts as there are today and the Theory was nothing more than a theory. Today, with lots of new facts, the Theory is more than just a theory since it's accepted by most of the scientific world. Another example of theories that are science is the astronomer's theories of how new stars are created. Scientific facts have been considered and many scientific theories have been born. Quote:
And RÃ*an and Lief; You think 10 000 BC is recent? I believe the Earth is millions of years old, and even I don't think 10 000 BC is 'recent'
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