07-30-2010, 03:11 AM | #161 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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I am going to have to agree... some further outlining of the point being made, as well as the reason for the particular link being posted, would be much appreciated rather than just a snippet comment and a link. Otherwise 'discussion' is moot. Pun intended.
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07-30-2010, 08:58 AM | #162 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Ah, those Americans!
From this one example, it's clear that murder and sex cults are widely practiced national pastimes and cultural institutions, right? Right?
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07-31-2010, 06:27 PM | #163 |
Elf Lord
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Quite.
Last edited by Tessar : 07-31-2010 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Personal attack. |
07-31-2010, 06:32 PM | #164 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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Please, I understand that tensions are high but the no personal attacks rule still stands. We are nowhere near the banning stages yet, however please remember that this is a debate not a battle of absolutes. Also if someone is presenting evidence that you do not agree with, you can always find a countering opinion/article to present, or simply ignore the person in question.
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08-01-2010, 03:56 AM | #165 |
Elf Lord
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There's no tension at this end, honestly Tessar. I already have Inked on ignore. Occasionally I see his tripe because someone else quotes it when they respond.
The thing it, people respond and he never engages with the debate. You can present countering opinion or all the evidence you like but he doesn't engage. It's hit-and-run trolling. And the content is nasty, misanthropic stuff. |
08-01-2010, 10:03 AM | #166 |
Elf Lord
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No; thanks, Rian, it was the first time I've encountered the term, though I'm familiar with the situation.
I was wondering about your comment re your husband. Was he a Mission Kid or a Military Brat? My situation is different, basically the immigrant experience. My kids have grown up mostly in Taiwanese culture. Most of my foreign friends are in the same mixed-marriage situation, and thus our children are not true TCKs. I'm friends with two couples where both parents came here as missionaries and ended up staying- one American Christian; one Canadian Bahai. Both of them have had some problems with their older kids- pioneers, only foreigners in their respective schools- but the younger ones seem to have made a smoother transition. My Bahai friend is the only one whose kids are adults- both finished college in Canada; one living in the States and the other in China (same language she grew up with in Taiwan); neither likely to come back, though of course we live in a pretty backwater one-horse kind of place- most locals don't stay once they reach adulthood. When our kids were younger a group of about four or five of us tried to set up a bit of a 'foreign' environment for them- we (all fathers except for one) made rules about only speaking in English to each other's kids; having story and movie sessions; celebrating holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving together. My older son is more self-consciously 'foreign'; he uses his English ability and 'half-breed' looks to his advantage- the younger two actually look more Western but identify more as 'Taiwanese'.
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08-01-2010, 10:19 AM | #167 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
No, the average age for marriage is as high as in other European countries (mid-late 20s- higher than the US). The legal age was raised from 15 to 18 in 2006 -most US states are 18 with 16 - sometimes 15- if with parental or judicial consent- Jerry Lee, where are you now? So what does this have to do with the age of French marriage at all? Is this trying to tie in with the young age at which some Muslim girls are married? Except the woman in question is, of course, not Muslim. Basically it makes no sense whatsoever, even if intended as a sneer.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-01-2010, 10:52 AM | #168 |
Elf Lord
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PS, I take back "racist" in "Xenophobic Racist Rants" above- inked has never posted anything racist, and I apologise for saying otherwise.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
08-07-2010, 02:20 PM | #169 |
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
08-07-2010, 04:17 PM | #170 |
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Did you read the article, Inked? The people who received the aid are not the ones who shot them, it was an insurgent group.
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08-08-2010, 09:45 PM | #171 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Details are not one of Inked strongpoints, and he's about as racist as anyone could be from the pure point of the term, which is viewing everything solely from his own cultural upbringing, but that is a fault we all have to at least some degree.
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08-09-2010, 04:17 AM | #172 |
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08-09-2010, 06:52 PM | #173 |
Elf Lord
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Subtle commentary is not a strong point, obviously. The medicine was not wanted by the insurgents because it carried a multicultural message. Therefore, it was removed by the insurgents. All multiculturalism is not wanted, despite the bleeding hearts who insist it is the only way to whatever dys-utopia they have in mind. This is a very loud anti-multicultural statement.
I have yet to make a racist remark, though some seem to think that a fitting epithet for reasons quite beyond my ken. On the lighter side, go here for a multicultural banquet, as it were - http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/201...ect-sushi.html
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
08-09-2010, 08:47 PM | #174 | |
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Speaking of:
Quote:
Seems like the people who received the aid were grateful enough for it. It wasn't the people that were being helped who chased them down and shot the aid workers. You are making a generalized comment about the culture's desires based off of what an insurgent group is doing. |
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08-10-2010, 01:21 PM | #175 |
Quasi Evil
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Actually the article stated that the extremists killed the health workers because they accused them of prothletising not necessarily because they didnt want a multicultural Afghanistan. Seems to me this is more a discussion about the tragic heartless actions of a few radicals than a statement about culture (multi or otherwise) in Afghanistan. The fact that the hundreds (thousands?) of people they helped all accepted their help rather than rejecting it because of the aid worker's western culture, certainly shows that the majority "culture" in Afghanistan is NOT represented by the actions of these few extremists. To extrapolate otherwise just makes you look foolish. If you can make statements about entire cultures based on the actions of a tiny minority (or even one individual) then the concept of culture is meaningless. Especially when even that tiny minority didnt even site culture as their main reasoning for the heinous crimes.
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08-10-2010, 02:37 PM | #176 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Quote:
To decry this as "racist" is to fail to distinguish between different ideas, and to blur boundaries until everything is just in a broad "things I don't like" category, which does no more to contribute to the exchange of ideas than inked's quip-with-a-link tactic.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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08-10-2010, 06:34 PM | #177 |
Elf Lord
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Now you're playing semantics, holding up the word "culture" to excuse his racism. Nice one.
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08-10-2010, 08:03 PM | #178 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I'm not excusing anything; I certainly think a lot of the generalizations and conclusions drawn from some isolated instances about other cultures are absurd. I'm just saying, call a spade a spade, and not a rake. (Unless I'm mistaken, GM, you were taking a similar path when you retracted "racist" in favour of "xenophobic." Particularly since "racist" is about the most inflammatory slur that can be thrown currently in the political scene (at least in the US, not sure about the UK), we should be careful to only use it when it is accurate. Using such charged language indiscriminately against opponents is a standard tactic to silence discussion and impose an oppressive hegemony of thought. It's the tactic I object to, not the disagreement with inked.
Trying to discredit my point, by assuming that because I objected the rhetoric over inked's posts, I therefore agree with him (IMO, most of them are wrong, some are absurd, and many don't even really belong in this thread), also does nothing to help discussion, and leaves no room for anything except toeing a particular line. Not helpful. Meaningful discourse can only occur when we distinguish between different issues and ideas, rather than just lumping everything without distinction into either "mainstream moderate" or "conservative extremist."
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 08-10-2010 at 08:16 PM. |
08-10-2010, 11:23 PM | #179 |
Elf Lord
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What happened in Afghanistan is the actions of a few radicals, so it can be excused, eh?
Then why did TIME magazine devote its cover and main story August 9, 2010, to the persistent and village approved mistreatment of women? You may link here if you so desire to the cover and the article about how women in Afghanistan are treated in explicit rejection of multiculturalism. How many actions of how many few does it take to make such a rejection plain? http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,...100809,00.html Is rejection of multiculturalism limited to these types? Are there valid grounds for judging/discriminating between cultures and choosing one over another? If all cultures are created equal, then how can you deny the right to execute those disagreed with (by however many) as a means of preserving cultural identity? Therefore, I reiterate the thread title: multiculturalism, boon or bane?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 08-10-2010 at 11:24 PM. Reason: add link, spelin |
08-11-2010, 01:35 AM | #180 | ||
Elf Lord
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Quote:
But in this case, a line should be drawn between culture and race- inked would probably be welcoming and open to any good Christian Afghans or Arabs- he just doesn't like Muslims, and he probably dislikes, say, white-skinned Balkan Muslims as much as he dislikes black-skinned Somali ones, yellow-skinned Chinese ones or brown-skinned Indonesian ones- that's just the colour most of them happen to be. Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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